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Thanks, but I'd rather the government not collect all this sensitive, personal information. In fact, I'd rather nobody collect it. It's kind of shocking in the

Thanks, but I'd rather the government not collect all this sensitive, personal information. In fact, I'd rather nobody collect it. It's kind of shocking in the first place that our banks and lenders are allowed to release such personal information to a credit bureau without our opt-in. I'd rather Sanders focus on legislating a right to privacy, rather than for the government to take over a role that shouldn't exist.

mc32 7y ago
The system firs lubricate money. Otherwise things would be like medical records where you have ask for a transfer, but it’d be worse. Unless you didn’t need credit (loans of any type).
nostromo 7y ago
> without our opt-in You do opt-in when you sign credit agreements and the like. Since all creditors require it your options are to opt-in to credit reporting or opt-out of borrowing.
- guerrilla 7y ago
  > when you sign credit agreement if. So I'm not tracked if I've never taken a loan or credit card?
  - Fezzik 7y ago
    That is correct, sort of. If you have never had a credit card or taken out an auto loan (or student loan, or mortgage,etc...) then there are no data points on your credit report. You are still "tracked" though - you would simply have a low credit score because there is no data to determine your credit worthiness.
- propter_hoc 7y ago
  Right, that's what I'm saying should be legislated to be optional. I don't think citizens should be forced to make that choice. Frankly, I think it might even be best to forbid a third party from collecting a borrower's personal information as a condition of a lender providing a personal financial product. I will in advance disagree with the objection that this would make it impossible for the lending industry to operate. I have run a lending business before, and in the industry FICO score is much less valuable than a lot of other information available to lenders (demographic, income, assets). For asset-based lending (car loans, mortgages, etc), FICO is even more irrelevant compared to factors like loan-to-value.
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  - harryh 7y ago
    demographic I don't think it's a good idea to go back to the bad old days before credit reporting where whether you could get a loan or not was based on your demographics (color of your skin) rather than on the objective criterion in a credit report.
    - propter_hoc 7y ago
      Your home address, age and marital status are absolutely used by lenders in a data-driven analysis of whether you are a creditworthy borrower. I don't think that's a necessarily malevolent analysis, but it's also not true that we live in a society where your demographics are irrelevant to your ability to access credit.
      - harryh 7y ago
        Your home address, age and marital status are absolutely used by lenders Oh I know. The world isn't perfect in this respect, but it's a hell of a lot better than it used to be thanks to credit reporting. It has been an incredibly powerful tool for social justice. Outlawing it as a tool would be a very large step backwards.
        propter_hoc 7y ago
        I honestly think it would be overall better for us. Like I said, FICO is a very weak signal that isn't given much weight in the adjudication process; and your lenders are using these other signals I listed anyway, so the negative social effects you speak of are already happening. So, the only net outcome of automatic, forced credit reporting is that third party companies exist that collect, misuse and profit off of citizens' personal data. Anyway, rather than a draconian approach of outlawing credit bureaus, I think a law making third-party credit reporting optional rather than required is the right thing to push for, and more realistic than a nonstarter suggestion like nationalizing the credit bureaus.
trothamel 7y ago
Credit reporting was a big tool for equality. Before credit reporting, you basically had loans limited to people that were known personally - if you didn't know someone with money that had a high opinion of you, you were SOL. Now, creditworthiness is judged on more objective measures, which makes it easier to buy a house, start a business, etc. I think we should hold credit organizations meaningfully responsible for data breaches - but at the same time, let's not get rid of the benefits by tossing credit reporting out entirely.
- asdff 7y ago
  >Now, creditworthiness is judged on more objective measures Except it isn't. In the current system, you could be signed on to your parents credit card in high school and get a far better credit rating than someone who got their first credit card after college. Building credit is pretty easy to do and easy to game. An objective system would be if the bank just saw your income and expenses and debts to determine whether or not you're worthy of a loan, not that you've had that capital one card in your sock drawer for five years and use your amex for your netflix subscription. My little credit reporting anecdote is that of a good friend who came from Germany to practice medicine. Getting a home loan was a pain in the ass because he had zero credit history, despite his hourly rate being multiples of whatever the branch manager of that bank was making.
pilsetnieks 7y ago
Your government is collecting that information anyway. Would you rather they also give it to companies like Equifax as well?

mc32 7y ago

The system firs lubricate money. Otherwise things would be like medical records where you have ask for a transfer, but it’d be worse. Unless you didn’t need credit (loans of any type).

nostromo 7y ago

> without our opt-in You do opt-in when you sign credit agreements and the like. Since all creditors require it your options are to opt-in to credit reporting or opt-out of borrowing.

guerrilla 7y ago
> when you sign credit agreement if. So I'm not tracked if I've never taken a loan or credit card?
- Fezzik 7y ago
  That is correct, sort of. If you have never had a credit card or taken out an auto loan (or student loan, or mortgage,etc...) then there are no data points on your credit report. You are still "tracked" though - you would simply have a low credit score because there is no data to determine your credit worthiness.
propter_hoc 7y ago
Right, that's what I'm saying should be legislated to be optional. I don't think citizens should be forced to make that choice. Frankly, I think it might even be best to forbid a third party from collecting a borrower's personal information as a condition of a lender providing a personal financial product. I will in advance disagree with the objection that this would make it impossible for the lending industry to operate. I have run a lending business before, and in the industry FICO score is much less valuable than a lot of other information available to lenders (demographic, income, assets). For asset-based lending (car loans, mortgages, etc), FICO is even more irrelevant compared to factors like loan-to-value.
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- harryh 7y ago
  demographic I don't think it's a good idea to go back to the bad old days before credit reporting where whether you could get a loan or not was based on your demographics (color of your skin) rather than on the objective criterion in a credit report.
  - propter_hoc 7y ago
    Your home address, age and marital status are absolutely used by lenders in a data-driven analysis of whether you are a creditworthy borrower. I don't think that's a necessarily malevolent analysis, but it's also not true that we live in a society where your demographics are irrelevant to your ability to access credit.
    - harryh 7y ago
      Your home address, age and marital status are absolutely used by lenders Oh I know. The world isn't perfect in this respect, but it's a hell of a lot better than it used to be thanks to credit reporting. It has been an incredibly powerful tool for social justice. Outlawing it as a tool would be a very large step backwards.
      - propter_hoc 7y ago
        I honestly think it would be overall better for us. Like I said, FICO is a very weak signal that isn't given much weight in the adjudication process; and your lenders are using these other signals I listed anyway, so the negative social effects you speak of are already happening. So, the only net outcome of automatic, forced credit reporting is that third party companies exist that collect, misuse and profit off of citizens' personal data. Anyway, rather than a draconian approach of outlawing credit bureaus, I think a law making third-party credit reporting optional rather than required is the right thing to push for, and more realistic than a nonstarter suggestion like nationalizing the credit bureaus.

trothamel 7y ago

Credit reporting was a big tool for equality. Before credit reporting, you basically had loans limited to people that were known personally - if you didn't know someone with money that had a high opinion of you, you were SOL. Now, creditworthiness is judged on more objective measures, which makes it easier to buy a house, start a business, etc. I think we should hold credit organizations meaningfully responsible for data breaches - but at the same time, let's not get rid of the benefits by tossing credit reporting out entirely.

asdff 7y ago
>Now, creditworthiness is judged on more objective measures Except it isn't. In the current system, you could be signed on to your parents credit card in high school and get a far better credit rating than someone who got their first credit card after college. Building credit is pretty easy to do and easy to game. An objective system would be if the bank just saw your income and expenses and debts to determine whether or not you're worthy of a loan, not that you've had that capital one card in your sock drawer for five years and use your amex for your netflix subscription. My little credit reporting anecdote is that of a good friend who came from Germany to practice medicine. Getting a home loan was a pain in the ass because he had zero credit history, despite his hourly rate being multiples of whatever the branch manager of that bank was making.

pilsetnieks 7y ago

Your government is collecting that information anyway. Would you rather they also give it to companies like Equifax as well?