4 ms·

can you share some more resources on this? sounds very interesting.

TrainedMonkey 7y ago
That is basic premise of the "The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself". That is where I learned of the concept.
- scotch_drinker 7y ago
  +1 for this book as a starting point for removing yourself from the tyranny of your emotions.
  - thepinkelefant 7y ago
    Will also suggest to look at the entire Jainism religion which is not really a religion but a way of living life. It has laid out a extremely detailed description of how the soul is totally separate entity and the different tejas body and karam bodies that make Us up A detailed description in this article on the concept of Mind: Philosophy of Mind: A Jain Perspective https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/369b/7abd19f494d8b6d0f36115fb837c81ba655e.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/369b/7abd19f494d8b6d0f36115...
coderintherye 7y ago
"Zen mind, Beginner's mind" is a good resource as there is a good amount of discussion in there, especially the part on how we are both one and two, not either of these things, but both of these things at the same time.
idclip 7y ago
Why not Consider a 10 day vipassana course? Vipassana practitioners believe in generating their own truths as the nature of the mind reveals itself through meditation.
- denton-scratch 7y ago
  "Vipassana" is an annoyingly-ambiguous term. It refers to a particular style of meditation, as taught by a particular teacher and his acolytes - a form of no-self insight mediation, based on a systematic examination of all the things that might constitute a self. It also refers generally to "insight" meditation, where "insight" might depend on whether you are training in a mahayana or hinayana tradition (in hinayana, it's insight into no-self, in mahayana, it's insight into emptiness). It might refer to silent but discursive reflection, based on instructions; or it might be a concept-free state of "resting the mind", arising spontaneously from various kinds of shamatha/samatha (broadly, mental calming) exercises. No doubt the the term also has divergent meanings in other Indian practice traditions. So why a 10-day vipassana course, rather than (say) a nine-day course? Is it a particular brand of "vipassana" that you are suggesting? In what respect is it a "course" - do you get a certificate at the end? Is there a test? The particular style of meditation referred to in the article is one I've never heard of before; BWV, or "Brain Wave Vibration". Oh dear, that sounds suspiciously like woo, so I'll google it. Hmmm. Apart from this NIH paper, I can't find anything about BWV that doesn't reek of hype or woo. Why did the researchers choose this particular obscure style of meditation? Judging by their names, it seems that many of the researchers are Korean. Perhaps BWV was invented by some Korean sect derived from buddhism. As far as I can tell, BWV is really a form of guided shamatha, incorporating physical movement. That's not unusual; both shamatha and vipassana are often performed while walking (saves leg stiffness from long periods of sitting). Calling it "yoga" doesn't help much; that's an even looser term than "vipassana". In both buddhist and shaivite traditions, all types of meditation are forms of yoga ("yoga" in Sanskrit just means "union" - or "yoke", like the wooden apparatus that unites two cattle for ploughing work). I'm aware that various styles of meditation have been productised and commercialised over the last couple of decades, and are now marketed for profit to knowledge-workers, executives and the like (i.e. suckers with not much time, but with money to burn). I'm deeply suspicious of these trends. If meditation costs anything, it costs time. Personal declaration: for about 30 years I used to do a lot of meditation in a buddhist tradition, but I think I've fully recovered from all that now.
  - denton-scratch 7y ago
    Oh - I didn't mention "mindfulness". This is a term that's nowadays widely used in therapy and treatment situatiuons; it's also heavily commercialised and branded. When I was taught mindfulness, it was initially mindfulness of breathing; a way of calming the mind. A while later I realised it was a basic part of the buddhist approach to morality; how can your action be correct if you have no idea what you are doing? - So I was taught to become mindful in everything - cooking, programming, walking, listening etc. Mindfulness in programming seems to be very difficult! The "mindfulness" that therapists use seems to be a form of shamatha (calming the mind), specifically mindfulness of breathing, usually with spoken guidance from the facilitator (after all, they have to do something to earn their fee).
idclip 7y ago
I will post more as i find the resources; I have a health resource, stemming from obvious stress hormone reduction. Its a Sunday morning here; i will leave you for now with a registration website for a 10 day course: https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/courses/search https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/courses/search (It is near free, fees are commute, white clothes and a very optional donation, finishing a course is considered payment enough)
- javajosh 7y ago
  Those courses are great! Regarding commute - there are ride shares available, especially if you come from a major city. And there is no need for special white clothes! (Although I'd avoid really extreme colors, logos, etc.).
- alexcnwy 7y ago
  I did a 10 day retreat after burning out working at a hedge fund and I can highly highly recommend it. I must warn that it’s not easy. I thought a meditation retreat would be a great way to unplug and take it easy but the schedule is intense and meditating that much requires great energy and focus. Highly recommended but know what you’re getting into :)
qwerty456127 7y ago
Hardly. There probably are but I don't know any. I've figured this out logically and empirically. From the spiritual point of view (I follow Dzogchen), once you realize you are not your ego (which is a system of feelings, thoughts, perception etc.) but it is yours (a thing you own), learn to observe it from a distance and realize what you are (by turning your inner gaze back to the point where you observe the ego from) this will become obvious and all left to do is practice. Or the fivefold practice of Dawa Gyaltsen will give a clue. Practically it's like learning to swim - the first time you are put in the water you don't know you can but as you persist in your intention and keep on trying the skill develops and grows into a whole new dimension of freedom. From the scientific point of view all the feelings are chemical reactions involving substances like serotonin (produced from 5HTP/tryptophan), dopamine (produced from DOPA/tyrosine), norepinefrine, acetylcholine, GABA, glucose etc. with help of some other chemicals. E.g. it is not really hard to stop being angry at somebody when you realize the cause of your anger is merely a chemical imbalance rather than the person you are angry at. Even if he has actually done something wrong you don't have to actually be mad - you can act reasonably (even punish him or exclude him from your social circle if this seems rationally necessary) while maintaining great mood (which would be particularly easy if you were on xanax or something - just a proof it's all about chemistry) and maintaining great mood probably is what you actually want. As soon as you start thinking this way you just stop taking your emotions seriously (which doesn't mean you can't enjoy pleasant ones) and they (the unpleasant and impractical ones) fade away as you stop dedicating attention to them. The more you practice this the less of them even emerge.

That is basic premise of the "The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself". That is where I learned of the concept.

scotch_drinker 7y ago
+1 for this book as a starting point for removing yourself from the tyranny of your emotions.
- thepinkelefant 7y ago
  Will also suggest to look at the entire Jainism religion which is not really a religion but a way of living life. It has laid out a extremely detailed description of how the soul is totally separate entity and the different tejas body and karam bodies that make Us up A detailed description in this article on the concept of Mind: Philosophy of Mind: A Jain Perspective https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/369b/7abd19f494d8b6d0f36115fb837c81ba655e.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/369b/7abd19f494d8b6d0f36115...

coderintherye 7y ago

"Zen mind, Beginner's mind" is a good resource as there is a good amount of discussion in there, especially the part on how we are both one and two, not either of these things, but both of these things at the same time.

idclip 7y ago

Why not Consider a 10 day vipassana course? Vipassana practitioners believe in generating their own truths as the nature of the mind reveals itself through meditation.

denton-scratch 7y ago
"Vipassana" is an annoyingly-ambiguous term. It refers to a particular style of meditation, as taught by a particular teacher and his acolytes - a form of no-self insight mediation, based on a systematic examination of all the things that might constitute a self. It also refers generally to "insight" meditation, where "insight" might depend on whether you are training in a mahayana or hinayana tradition (in hinayana, it's insight into no-self, in mahayana, it's insight into emptiness). It might refer to silent but discursive reflection, based on instructions; or it might be a concept-free state of "resting the mind", arising spontaneously from various kinds of shamatha/samatha (broadly, mental calming) exercises. No doubt the the term also has divergent meanings in other Indian practice traditions. So why a 10-day vipassana course, rather than (say) a nine-day course? Is it a particular brand of "vipassana" that you are suggesting? In what respect is it a "course" - do you get a certificate at the end? Is there a test? The particular style of meditation referred to in the article is one I've never heard of before; BWV, or "Brain Wave Vibration". Oh dear, that sounds suspiciously like woo, so I'll google it. Hmmm. Apart from this NIH paper, I can't find anything about BWV that doesn't reek of hype or woo. Why did the researchers choose this particular obscure style of meditation? Judging by their names, it seems that many of the researchers are Korean. Perhaps BWV was invented by some Korean sect derived from buddhism. As far as I can tell, BWV is really a form of guided shamatha, incorporating physical movement. That's not unusual; both shamatha and vipassana are often performed while walking (saves leg stiffness from long periods of sitting). Calling it "yoga" doesn't help much; that's an even looser term than "vipassana". In both buddhist and shaivite traditions, all types of meditation are forms of yoga ("yoga" in Sanskrit just means "union" - or "yoke", like the wooden apparatus that unites two cattle for ploughing work). I'm aware that various styles of meditation have been productised and commercialised over the last couple of decades, and are now marketed for profit to knowledge-workers, executives and the like (i.e. suckers with not much time, but with money to burn). I'm deeply suspicious of these trends. If meditation costs anything, it costs time. Personal declaration: for about 30 years I used to do a lot of meditation in a buddhist tradition, but I think I've fully recovered from all that now.
- denton-scratch 7y ago
  Oh - I didn't mention "mindfulness". This is a term that's nowadays widely used in therapy and treatment situatiuons; it's also heavily commercialised and branded. When I was taught mindfulness, it was initially mindfulness of breathing; a way of calming the mind. A while later I realised it was a basic part of the buddhist approach to morality; how can your action be correct if you have no idea what you are doing? - So I was taught to become mindful in everything - cooking, programming, walking, listening etc. Mindfulness in programming seems to be very difficult! The "mindfulness" that therapists use seems to be a form of shamatha (calming the mind), specifically mindfulness of breathing, usually with spoken guidance from the facilitator (after all, they have to do something to earn their fee).

idclip 7y ago

I will post more as i find the resources; I have a health resource, stemming from obvious stress hormone reduction. Its a Sunday morning here; i will leave you for now with a registration website for a 10 day course: https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/courses/search https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/courses/search (It is near free, fees are commute, white clothes and a very optional donation, finishing a course is considered payment enough)

javajosh 7y ago
Those courses are great! Regarding commute - there are ride shares available, especially if you come from a major city. And there is no need for special white clothes! (Although I'd avoid really extreme colors, logos, etc.).
alexcnwy 7y ago
I did a 10 day retreat after burning out working at a hedge fund and I can highly highly recommend it. I must warn that it’s not easy. I thought a meditation retreat would be a great way to unplug and take it easy but the schedule is intense and meditating that much requires great energy and focus. Highly recommended but know what you’re getting into :)

qwerty456127 7y ago

Hardly. There probably are but I don't know any. I've figured this out logically and empirically. From the spiritual point of view (I follow Dzogchen), once you realize you are not your ego (which is a system of feelings, thoughts, perception etc.) but it is yours (a thing you own), learn to observe it from a distance and realize what you are (by turning your inner gaze back to the point where you observe the ego from) this will become obvious and all left to do is practice. Or the fivefold practice of Dawa Gyaltsen will give a clue. Practically it's like learning to swim - the first time you are put in the water you don't know you can but as you persist in your intention and keep on trying the skill develops and grows into a whole new dimension of freedom. From the scientific point of view all the feelings are chemical reactions involving substances like serotonin (produced from 5HTP/tryptophan), dopamine (produced from DOPA/tyrosine), norepinefrine, acetylcholine, GABA, glucose etc. with help of some other chemicals. E.g. it is not really hard to stop being angry at somebody when you realize the cause of your anger is merely a chemical imbalance rather than the person you are angry at. Even if he has actually done something wrong you don't have to actually be mad - you can act reasonably (even punish him or exclude him from your social circle if this seems rationally necessary) while maintaining great mood (which would be particularly easy if you were on xanax or something - just a proof it's all about chemistry) and maintaining great mood probably is what you actually want. As soon as you start thinking this way you just stop taking your emotions seriously (which doesn't mean you can't enjoy pleasant ones) and they (the unpleasant and impractical ones) fade away as you stop dedicating attention to them. The more you practice this the less of them even emerge.