4 ms·

It seems quite likely that we live within a hierarchy of simulations. That means the physics we observe don’t need to be ultimate; they might be whatever the si

by mbrock 7y ago

It seems quite likely that we live within a hierarchy of simulations. That means the physics we observe don’t need to be ultimate; they might be whatever the simulators wished them to be. Maybe some outer layer of simulation involves no technological civilization with intentionality but is just some massive computational process in a dynamic substrate that we can’t imagine. If time is a feature specific to our simulation then maybe causality itself is kind of like a Kantian category and not a property of the real base universe. So maybe “why” questions only apply locally. It does seem sensible to assume metaphysically that our observed world of causality somehow supervenes on some structure or energy that transcends causality, some kind of God or higher reality, even if it is a “god of the gaps.” We would be a part of this God’s “creative exploration” or something.

photon_lines 7y ago
Love it. It's pretty close to my answer - my hypothesis is that it's a simulation which creates itself. I'm not sure if you can call this the 'base' - but essentially, it comes down to a self-recursion. It's information which calls itself and which calls itself, and which well...I'm not sure if you can define a base. 1 = 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ... so mathematics itself is actually self recursive.
muzani 7y ago
My belief is more that God is omnipotent and most benevolent. In his benevolence, he has the power to create near infinite multiverses, with a universe branching whenever each of us makes a moral decisoon. God gives us consciousness in the one where we are at our best behavior. Maybe in an alternate universe, I become an asshole billionaire, or marry someone who drives me astray. Maybe in a parallel universe, a close relative commits suicide and inspires me to join them. This world that I'm in is the best world for me, but could be a bad world for someone who has recently committed suicide in my conscious world. It's not too far fetched. I got the idea while building some procedural plot generators. The characters have their free will and diverging paths, but it only picks the paths that were predestined for a reason.
- photon_lines 7y ago
  What if God were part of the system itself though? Wouldn't that be a case worth considering? From my perspective: if you were to ask God what created him/her/it, I would think that there would be some sort of answer. Or sorry, when I say 'create' - I really mean having a casual mechanism without having to invoke an ever lasting presence. Your take on having parallel universes is also interesting: I believe that there definitely are parallel worlds (this is where we extend into the 5th dimension) - so we may have a very deep call stack! 'I got the idea while building some procedural plot generators. The characters have their free will and diverging paths, but it only picks the paths that were predestined for a reason.' Wow - interesting! Now we're diving into 'free will.' So, the characters which you programmed - would you say that they have a will? Or did you program them to pick those paths? You can almost say that it's self emergent system?
  - muzani 7y ago
    I don't think it matters whether or not God is part of the system. It's a layer of abstraction that we can't act on and doesn't affect anything. "So, the characters which you programmed - would you say that they have a will? Or did you program them to pick those paths? You can almost say that it's self emergent system?" I worked on a little system that generates plots. Plots follow a certain flow - a beginning, an ending, an intro phase, 'centerpiece spectacular', and climax. There are patterns - some are solo, some are groups of two or three or up to five. Characters are generated with backstories that fit these patterns, e.g. someone solo might grow up in an environment where everyone else is incompetent. There are patterns for plots. A comedy might have a giant misunderstanding between two parties. A monster story has a person built up to be a near undefeatable monster. Monsters are common plot themes in religion, from Pharaoh to Goliath. The characters can develop personalities based on what they have, e.g. a character may go through a traumatic event, which could make them cynical, wiser, or more determined. While these odds are weighted, it's still sort of their "free will". The system then searches for a path that matches. If it doesn't match, it rolls different characters or different character decisions. The first path that matches these conditions is chosen. I can't really say whether I programmed them to pick these paths, but in a way, they pick paths that fit the story as it would be told. I imagine there are a mix of good souls, evil souls, and everything in between. These souls have all been assigned to their respective roles. Things that are wholly nature not nurture are a part of our souls - willfulness, arrogance, ambition, pride, and so on. The rest are a part of our paths (nurture), even things like self-restraint and lust.

by mbrock 7y ago

photon_lines 7y ago

Love it. It's pretty close to my answer - my hypothesis is that it's a simulation which creates itself. I'm not sure if you can call this the 'base' - but essentially, it comes down to a self-recursion. It's information which calls itself and which calls itself, and which well...I'm not sure if you can define a base. 1 = 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ... so mathematics itself is actually self recursive.

muzani 7y ago

My belief is more that God is omnipotent and most benevolent. In his benevolence, he has the power to create near infinite multiverses, with a universe branching whenever each of us makes a moral decisoon. God gives us consciousness in the one where we are at our best behavior. Maybe in an alternate universe, I become an asshole billionaire, or marry someone who drives me astray. Maybe in a parallel universe, a close relative commits suicide and inspires me to join them. This world that I'm in is the best world for me, but could be a bad world for someone who has recently committed suicide in my conscious world. It's not too far fetched. I got the idea while building some procedural plot generators. The characters have their free will and diverging paths, but it only picks the paths that were predestined for a reason.

photon_lines 7y ago
What if God were part of the system itself though? Wouldn't that be a case worth considering? From my perspective: if you were to ask God what created him/her/it, I would think that there would be some sort of answer. Or sorry, when I say 'create' - I really mean having a casual mechanism without having to invoke an ever lasting presence. Your take on having parallel universes is also interesting: I believe that there definitely are parallel worlds (this is where we extend into the 5th dimension) - so we may have a very deep call stack! 'I got the idea while building some procedural plot generators. The characters have their free will and diverging paths, but it only picks the paths that were predestined for a reason.' Wow - interesting! Now we're diving into 'free will.' So, the characters which you programmed - would you say that they have a will? Or did you program them to pick those paths? You can almost say that it's self emergent system?
- muzani 7y ago
  I don't think it matters whether or not God is part of the system. It's a layer of abstraction that we can't act on and doesn't affect anything. "So, the characters which you programmed - would you say that they have a will? Or did you program them to pick those paths? You can almost say that it's self emergent system?" I worked on a little system that generates plots. Plots follow a certain flow - a beginning, an ending, an intro phase, 'centerpiece spectacular', and climax. There are patterns - some are solo, some are groups of two or three or up to five. Characters are generated with backstories that fit these patterns, e.g. someone solo might grow up in an environment where everyone else is incompetent. There are patterns for plots. A comedy might have a giant misunderstanding between two parties. A monster story has a person built up to be a near undefeatable monster. Monsters are common plot themes in religion, from Pharaoh to Goliath. The characters can develop personalities based on what they have, e.g. a character may go through a traumatic event, which could make them cynical, wiser, or more determined. While these odds are weighted, it's still sort of their "free will". The system then searches for a path that matches. If it doesn't match, it rolls different characters or different character decisions. The first path that matches these conditions is chosen. I can't really say whether I programmed them to pick these paths, but in a way, they pick paths that fit the story as it would be told. I imagine there are a mix of good souls, evil souls, and everything in between. These souls have all been assigned to their respective roles. Things that are wholly nature not nurture are a part of our souls - willfulness, arrogance, ambition, pride, and so on. The rest are a part of our paths (nurture), even things like self-restraint and lust.