5 ms·

I couldn't agree more. Adding to the anecdotes- it took me a solid 4 months of sitting on my butt, once or twice a day 10-20 minutes each sit, to actually break

by kylek 7y ago

I couldn't agree more. Adding to the anecdotes- it took me a solid 4 months of sitting on my butt, once or twice a day 10-20 minutes each sit, to actually break free. It was HARD, and I've since fallen out of practice. But once I was able to hit that point of single-mindedness reliably, it absolutely made a day-and-night difference in my focus and well-being. It truly felt like having a secret weapon at my disposal. I really need to get back to it :/

deepsun 7y ago
Why did you fallen out of practice?
- kylek 7y ago
  Life happens. To be honest I have a good amount of time these days. It's more about scheduling it (and sticking to it), at least at first. I don't think it would take me 4 months to get back to the level I was at (I've accumulated a few tools in my proverbial bag of tricks along the way)
ramzyo 7y ago
This mirrors my experience exactly, especially the last sentence!
sedeki 7y ago
While meditating, when did you choose to stop? I am guessing that having a timer is a big no-no, hehe.
- Hammershaft 7y ago
  Having a timer is excellent because it keeps you from having to constantly utilize your attention to consider how long you have been sitting and how much longer you should sit.
  - codr7 7y ago
    While I can see the logic there, I would strongly recommend against alarms. The deeper you go, the more sensitive you become. Being pulled out abruptly is very uncomfortable, to the point where knowing what's coming will stand in the way of even trying. I would say sit as long as you feel like it, except that doesn't really help initially. Maybe put on a non-intrusive background track that fades out when time is up? And do take your time when coming back; start by listening, then opening the eyes slowly etc. Same goes for waking up from regular sleep, but refusing alarms in this society is a pretty serious compromise.
    - sedeki 7y ago
      To sit as long as long as I feel like is not very informative as I don’t know what I am looking for when meditating. On another note, I have spent a good deal self-reflecting more or less alone in the dark with me and my thoughts. From what I understand on some parts of the web, this pretty much equates to ”meditation”. While others describe it differently. I guess I could download HeadSpace and be more explicit about it, but I do anyway think I have derived some mental benefits from the above behavior. Like, being more comfortable with myself. But I don’t think I am doing meditation since I don’t get all benefits as actual meditators. Just as a reference to the OP of this thread, about being able to distinguish oneself from the voices in one’s head... I think there are more benefits in meditation.
      - chachachoney 7y ago
        >> On another note, I have spent a good deal self-reflecting more or less alone in the dark with me and my thoughts. Two phrases that have been very relevant to my practice: "Being lost in thought is the opposite of concentration." "Lost in thought is not meditation." The above is not meant to imply that there aren't benefits to spending time lost in thought.
      - codr7 7y ago
        What you're looking for is awareness, to be right here right now and observe what's going on inside. If you're like most people, you spend most of your time lost in thoughts that you didn't actively choose. The first step is to realize that is the case, which is very difficult in the middle of the storm; hence the sitting down with closed eyes.
- kylek 7y ago
  When I was done :) this took a while to figure out too. You can always go "deeper" but what I've experienced are "thresholds" or "steps". Once I felt I "graduated" to a point, it felt like a nice place to marinate for a while (knowing fully well that it was one plateau of many), and would take a whole lot more effort (lack of effort?) to get further. By that time I'd have cleared out enough junk to get me through the day. I really don't know that I'm using the right terms here (and they definitely vary by tradition), but in my reading (again, nothing serious, lots of wikipedia and a few books on different modalities) these thresholds are described as different "states of absorption". I don't know if it is actually what I was experiencing, but descriptions the first/second jhana states seemed very apt at the time (when I was researching/testing this out for myself). (In traditional Jnana yoga there are 7 or 8 states, the highest ones are brushing on the nirvana state). (I can't stress how much I'm butchering this, I am but a student!)
- cgag 7y ago
  Not a no-no at all as far as I know. It was explicitly recommended in The Mind Illuminated. It just needs to be an alarm that you'll hear when it's done so you don't have to devote any attention to it, you just focus on meditating until it goes off.
- avtar 7y ago
  Having a timer is a really common practice. Try a search for "meditation timer" on the Apple or Google app stores.
- crucialfelix 7y ago
  I use a timer set for 30 minutes. Almost every time I know exactly when the gong will ring. It's very strange.
codr7 7y ago
Beating yourself up over "failing" only causes more delay and more suffering. That goes for not meditating as much as you think you should and not trying hard enough when loosing awareness. It's just practice, if you're not failing now and then you're not learning. I had to sort of force myself by going to live in an ashram full time for a while.
- kylek 7y ago
  >> I had to sort of force myself by going to live in an ashram full time for a while. That's amazing to me, really! I've considered doing 10-day sits before (vipassana most likely) but never got the courage to do it. Part of the reason being nicotine addiction (which would add a whole other dimension to the challenge). Once I sort out that bug out (and get a few levels higher in Hindi on duolingo) I want to look into it again.
  - mirchiseth 7y ago
    Why is Hindi required?
    - blunte 7y ago
      It's not. I recommend Mindfulness in Plain English By Bhante Henepola Gunaratana. It very directly lays out the benefits of Vipassana meditation, and it doesn't really involve any religion.
    - kylek 7y ago
      Oh, it's not. A trip to India is on my long-term todo list though, and it's something I'd be interested in doing there. Definitely not mutually exclusive!
      - crucialfelix 7y ago
        I did it in the Himalayas. There were literally monkeys fighting on the roof, musicians practicing every morning at 7am, and it was really cold. Regardless it was a peak experience in my life. Western centers are probably quieter and more comfortable.
blunte 7y ago
What you describe is enticing and sounds not so greatly different from my once-every-four-years pattern of weight lifting. The benefits are so obvious and so incredible, but somehow it happens repeatedly that we fall out of practice. Fortunately, it is possible to rejoin. So now I have two goals - return to strength training, and include regular mind "training".
ridewinter 7y ago
FWIW, after 15 years of consistent practice, mediation to me is simply isolating yourself so that you have no escape from the dramas in your mind. You eventually simply become bored of them and that liberates all kinds of creative energy within.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

by kylek 7y ago

deepsun 7y ago

Why did you fallen out of practice?

kylek 7y ago
Life happens. To be honest I have a good amount of time these days. It's more about scheduling it (and sticking to it), at least at first. I don't think it would take me 4 months to get back to the level I was at (I've accumulated a few tools in my proverbial bag of tricks along the way)

ramzyo 7y ago

This mirrors my experience exactly, especially the last sentence!

sedeki 7y ago

While meditating, when did you choose to stop? I am guessing that having a timer is a big no-no, hehe.

Hammershaft 7y ago
Having a timer is excellent because it keeps you from having to constantly utilize your attention to consider how long you have been sitting and how much longer you should sit.
- codr7 7y ago
  While I can see the logic there, I would strongly recommend against alarms. The deeper you go, the more sensitive you become. Being pulled out abruptly is very uncomfortable, to the point where knowing what's coming will stand in the way of even trying. I would say sit as long as you feel like it, except that doesn't really help initially. Maybe put on a non-intrusive background track that fades out when time is up? And do take your time when coming back; start by listening, then opening the eyes slowly etc. Same goes for waking up from regular sleep, but refusing alarms in this society is a pretty serious compromise.
  - sedeki 7y ago
    To sit as long as long as I feel like is not very informative as I don’t know what I am looking for when meditating. On another note, I have spent a good deal self-reflecting more or less alone in the dark with me and my thoughts. From what I understand on some parts of the web, this pretty much equates to ”meditation”. While others describe it differently. I guess I could download HeadSpace and be more explicit about it, but I do anyway think I have derived some mental benefits from the above behavior. Like, being more comfortable with myself. But I don’t think I am doing meditation since I don’t get all benefits as actual meditators. Just as a reference to the OP of this thread, about being able to distinguish oneself from the voices in one’s head... I think there are more benefits in meditation.
    - chachachoney 7y ago
      >> On another note, I have spent a good deal self-reflecting more or less alone in the dark with me and my thoughts. Two phrases that have been very relevant to my practice: "Being lost in thought is the opposite of concentration." "Lost in thought is not meditation." The above is not meant to imply that there aren't benefits to spending time lost in thought.
    - codr7 7y ago
      What you're looking for is awareness, to be right here right now and observe what's going on inside. If you're like most people, you spend most of your time lost in thoughts that you didn't actively choose. The first step is to realize that is the case, which is very difficult in the middle of the storm; hence the sitting down with closed eyes.
kylek 7y ago
When I was done :) this took a while to figure out too. You can always go "deeper" but what I've experienced are "thresholds" or "steps". Once I felt I "graduated" to a point, it felt like a nice place to marinate for a while (knowing fully well that it was one plateau of many), and would take a whole lot more effort (lack of effort?) to get further. By that time I'd have cleared out enough junk to get me through the day. I really don't know that I'm using the right terms here (and they definitely vary by tradition), but in my reading (again, nothing serious, lots of wikipedia and a few books on different modalities) these thresholds are described as different "states of absorption". I don't know if it is actually what I was experiencing, but descriptions the first/second jhana states seemed very apt at the time (when I was researching/testing this out for myself). (In traditional Jnana yoga there are 7 or 8 states, the highest ones are brushing on the nirvana state). (I can't stress how much I'm butchering this, I am but a student!)
cgag 7y ago
Not a no-no at all as far as I know. It was explicitly recommended in The Mind Illuminated. It just needs to be an alarm that you'll hear when it's done so you don't have to devote any attention to it, you just focus on meditating until it goes off.
avtar 7y ago
Having a timer is a really common practice. Try a search for "meditation timer" on the Apple or Google app stores.
crucialfelix 7y ago
I use a timer set for 30 minutes. Almost every time I know exactly when the gong will ring. It's very strange.

codr7 7y ago

Beating yourself up over "failing" only causes more delay and more suffering. That goes for not meditating as much as you think you should and not trying hard enough when loosing awareness. It's just practice, if you're not failing now and then you're not learning. I had to sort of force myself by going to live in an ashram full time for a while.

kylek 7y ago
>> I had to sort of force myself by going to live in an ashram full time for a while. That's amazing to me, really! I've considered doing 10-day sits before (vipassana most likely) but never got the courage to do it. Part of the reason being nicotine addiction (which would add a whole other dimension to the challenge). Once I sort out that bug out (and get a few levels higher in Hindi on duolingo) I want to look into it again.
- mirchiseth 7y ago
  Why is Hindi required?
  - blunte 7y ago
    It's not. I recommend Mindfulness in Plain English By Bhante Henepola Gunaratana. It very directly lays out the benefits of Vipassana meditation, and it doesn't really involve any religion.
  - kylek 7y ago
    Oh, it's not. A trip to India is on my long-term todo list though, and it's something I'd be interested in doing there. Definitely not mutually exclusive!
    - crucialfelix 7y ago
      I did it in the Himalayas. There were literally monkeys fighting on the roof, musicians practicing every morning at 7am, and it was really cold. Regardless it was a peak experience in my life. Western centers are probably quieter and more comfortable.

blunte 7y ago

What you describe is enticing and sounds not so greatly different from my once-every-four-years pattern of weight lifting. The benefits are so obvious and so incredible, but somehow it happens repeatedly that we fall out of practice. Fortunately, it is possible to rejoin. So now I have two goals - return to strength training, and include regular mind "training".

ridewinter 7y ago

FWIW, after 15 years of consistent practice, mediation to me is simply isolating yourself so that you have no escape from the dramas in your mind. You eventually simply become bored of them and that liberates all kinds of creative energy within.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]