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>Meditation training can enhance various cognitive processes, such as emotional regulation, executive control and attention, particularly sustained attention >

>Meditation training can enhance various cognitive processes, such as emotional regulation, executive control and attention, particularly sustained attention > Most of regions showing thicker cortical thickness in meditators are related with emotional processing Anecdotal experience: I started meditating years ago and what I've noticed is that my emotions are more ephemeral now. Instead of being angry or sad for minutes to hours it's seconds. Also, I feel like I'm able to connect more with what's going on right now instead of what was or what will be. There has been a significant amount of research already demonstrating the benefits of meditation and this adds to it.

albertshin 7y ago
I've just recently started practicing more with Headspace and have realized this is what I am being guided towards. I wonder has this affected the way you feel more positive emotions like happiness, joy? Or what about empathy?
- mbrock 7y ago
  Maybe it’s not simply a reduction in duration but more like kind of a cleaner “soundstage” so to speak, where emotional “sounds” ring and decay in a simpler, purer, less distorted or overdriven way. Like taking away the kind of frazzledness you would associate with stress, inner city pressure, burnout etc—so it’s like going for a hike in some mountains, camping by a lake, waking up early and feeling like everything kind of flows more easily, or at least that would be the ideal when you imagine such a hike. If you stub your toe you scream but quickly come to your senses, so you don’t dwell unnecessarily, but it’s not like sitting around a campfire would be less joyful. A calm mind seems to be a good state for joy and empathy. Also it does seem reasonable to say that the default mood towards other people, without any “acute” emotions going on, is a peaceful, relaxed, curious affection—so maybe kind of cleaning up the emotional noise leaves you with a natural good mood.
  - albertshin 7y ago
    Appreciate the really detailed reply!
  - EGreg 7y ago
    I have never meditated but I do have a lot of work for my startup (especially run ing out of money). I have been wearing dozens of hats for years and have accomplished a lot. I need to improve delegating — if it was properly capitalized. Thus, I seem to have formed an addiction to screens and seem to have constantly a state of mild anxiety about what work I will have to do next. If I wasn’t ambitious I could scale back, but we are almost at the inflection point so now is no time to turn back. My anger etc. (unless I am sleep derived) is minimal even without meditation. Very rarely do I “lose it” and even then it’s rational and with plenty of self deprecation and conflict resolution attempts which the other person has to reject for something to escalate. I’m a while past my 20s and I’m not married and don’t have kids yet. I feel I am behind in some ways. The past few years of 6 days a week work from home (with normal hanging out w friends etc.) have left me in a curious state. Here is my question. I feel pretty apathetic when I’m out, like I’ve already done everything. Camped, hiked, been on rooftops, been in comedy clubs, saw concerts, saw plays. Like it’s more of the same. The best thing for me emotionally is jiving with people who are easygoing and have a good sense of humor. Then it’s not where you are but who you’re with. But I still have this overall sense of “nothing matters”. Like even you have a good time with friends, you’re just on a conveyor belt getting one day closer to the time of death. Sure you can distract yourself with nice conversation on the way but that’s all. No matter how much you accomplish, or do, once you’re not around to see it, it’s in a way totally pointless. I wonder all the time about what consciousness is and study theory of mind and Abrahamic religions. I try to understand what it means and why I am ok with not having been around before a certain year. Now that I am here I find the idea demotivating that one day it will somehow be just like a fictional universe that we are not able to experience. Existence itself is, to me, related to some conscious and possibly intelligent observers. I have gone as far as I can work wise. If I had been doing the same thing day in and day out I would have long ago thrown in the towel and found something else to find meaning in, but my work has reached millions of people and I continue to build a snowball year after year. I realize everything about my life is pretty optimized for my work — I have cut out a commute, I don’t do various prayers and rituals that Jews do daily etc. I just can’t seem to bring myself to do many repetitive things every day unless I know exactly why I am doing them. But I am told by most orthodox Jews they are like meditation. Billions of people live in communities. They uphold traditions those communities have trained them from a young age to do. They accept them. I grew up in individualist USA, live on my own, have no siblings, and have yet to start a family. This has caused this melancholy all the time. I can feel emotions in the moment but when I calm down I am aware it’s all meaningless. And I’ve done most things so the emotions are kinda dulled as well. Sure I can take up a new hobby or busy myself with some other thing. I did those too (and of course they tended to be “productive”). Last summer I built a tent w furniture, for my local Jewish community, and I painted a giant mural w friends by the side of a highway. Things I had never done before. They were fun but now they are in the past. And so we beat on, boats agains the current... borne ceaselessly into the next day. Thoughts? Advice? I don’t think I am depressed, I am just always aware of the futility of it all. Perhaps I should read Ecclesiastes or Seneca.
- otakucode 7y ago
  I started meditating when I was a young teen, and am 40 now. I go through periods where I don't do it as much, but I've been off and on meditating for quite awhile. Not so much 'mindfulness' meditation as has become the trend lately, but more of the 'empty of everything' style where you count breaths, etc. Fairly similar in results though it seems. Same avoiding of engaging with random thoughts that float by, which was probably the biggest thing I got out of it. Especially when I am stressed, it can become very difficult to sleep as my mind just won't shut down. Meditation helps with that. I don't know if it is meditation or more my studying of philosophy (both in college and on my own time) that has led to my ability to control my emotions better. I would also say my emotions are ephemeral, but that's really because I understand them better. When they are justified, and helpful, I can nurture them and encourage them and indulge in them just fine. And if they're not, usually I can let them pass. There are exceptions, of course, for deep-seated things that I need more repeated attempts at suppression to change. Emotions are essentially a trained response, after all. Even if you intellectually know they're nonsensical, it has to be retrained.
  - bradhoffman 7y ago
    Do you have a specific philosopher or type of philosophy that you think contributed most to the better control of your emotions?
agumonkey 7y ago
Honestly, as much as I like to tame down fits of negative emotions. The fact that I can somehow decide to ignore different emotional response aspects of my ~self makes me feel slightly schizophrenic.
- sdfin 7y ago
  Interestingly you can also practice ignoring the deciding process.
criddell 7y ago
Are happiness and joy also ephemeral?
- evil-olive 7y ago
  Yes, absolutely. I linked this elsewhere in this thread, a Fresh Air interview [0] with the author of Why Buddhism is True [1] explains better than I can why having happiness be a permanent condition would not make any sense from an evolutionary perspective: > I mean, natural selection built us to do some things - a series of things that help us get genes into the next generation. Those include eating food so we stay alive, having sex, things like that. > And if it were the case that any of these things brought permanent gratification, then we would quit doing them, right? I mean, if you - you would eat. You'd feel blissed out. You'd never eat again. You'd have sex. You'd lie there, basking in the afterglow, never have sex again. Well, obviously, that's not a prescription for getting genes into the next generation. So natural selection seems to have built animals in general to be recurringly dissatisfied. And this is - seems to be a central feature of life, and it's central to the Buddhist diagnosis of what the problem is. A key Buddhist teaching is that dukkha (often translated as "suffering" but I believe "dissatisfaction" is more accurate) is caused not just by pushing away negative feelings, but by trying to not let go of positive feelings. Going out for a beer with my friends brings me happiness. If I chase that positive feeling, I might end up with a vicious hangover the next day, or long-term with a dependence on alcohol. As an oversimplification, you can view any addiction through the lens of taking an ephemeral positive feeling, wishing for it to be permanent, and pursuing it over and over again, rather than accepting the nature of its impermanence. 0: https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=541610511 https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor... 1: https://amazon.com/Why-Buddhism-True-Philosophy-Enlightenment/dp/1439195455 https://amazon.com/Why-Buddhism-True-Philosophy-Enlightenmen...
  - monktastic1 7y ago
    At the same time, Buddhism is about transcending samsara and therefore dukkha. It's hard to find a good word to describe the complete absence of all forms of dissatisfaction, but "happiness" is not a terrible first approximation.
akudha 7y ago
Do you use any app, follow any particular style? Any recommendations for a beginner? Also, how long do you meditate in a day? And do you meditate daily?
- evil-olive 7y ago
  > Do you use any app, follow any particular style? I've tried all of Calm, Headspace, and Insight Timer. I liked Calm's guided meditations; when I started the guiding helped me a lot. I'm currently using Insight Timer purely as a timer without any guidance. The style I follow most closely is vispassana, often translated as "insight" or "seeing the world clearly" or the trendy term "mindfulness". There is no "best" app or "best" style, only what works for each individual. I would caution against falling into a paradox of choice problem where you keep trying different apps or different styles in a search for the "best" one. Much like exercise - the best exercise is whichever one you can do consistently. > Any recommendations for a beginner? This will sound counter-intuitive, but lower your expectations. You'll hear lots of stuff from experienced meditators about how life-changing it is, and I'll echo that sentiment. But it certainly doesn't feel life-changing at first. If you go into it with high expectations, you'll very likely get disappointed and frustrated. > Also, how long do you meditate in a day? And do you meditate daily? I've done 10-15 minutes a day, every day, for the last 800-something days. I've also done two separate silent meditation retreats, of 2 days and 5 days respectively. There are 1440 minutes in a day. If you meditate for 10-15 minutes a day, that's just 1% of the day. Something that helped me establish my daily practice was a commitment that I can do anything if it only takes up 1% of my day.
  - wowtip 7y ago
    Could you do it on a 30 minute commute, or is a (most of the time very peaceful) bus trip too much external distractions?
    - Fjolsvith 7y ago
      I think one could do it on a bus trip after you have been practicing for a while. I got to where I could meditate in a noisy open dormitory.
misev 7y ago
I have noticed the same trend in me, but have never done any meditation so far. It could as well be due to growing older.
- jvagner 7y ago
  What if you’d meditated when you were younger..?
  - qwerty456127 7y ago
    This is a very interesting question. I don't even know whether it actually is good for children to meditate. "Inner dialogue" may be necessary for a young mind to develop. I believe development of mindfulness and silencing of the inner dialogue is a stage of development a person is meant to reach as they become adults. Those who don't reach it become old while keeping immature.
    - bnjms 7y ago
      Correct me if mistaken but isn’t the goal of mindfulness meditation to accept the inner dialogue rather than fighting it? For instance at one point as a child I had a conscience that would talk to me but as I grew older the voice passed into the background. Now my thoughts are the sort of jumbled mess meditators talk about. So I don’t understand why developing the ability to hear and accept these other voices would be a detriment.
      - qwerty456127 7y ago
        It's not the goal, it's the way. It disappears as you actually learn to observe it and everything mindfully all the time. E.g. now I only have inner dialogue when I choose to entertain myself this way and some times I feel too lazy even for this.
- qwerty456127 7y ago
  It could but this hardly happens to the majority of the people. Just look around and observe how many adults and old people are obsessed with their thoughts (often ridiculous) and feelings, take them very seriously and have very humble introspection/mindfulness skills.
nprateem 7y ago
What's cool is if you learn to work with chi/energy combined with the emotions. Then you realise just how ephemeral they can be and how it's possible to consciously alter your emotions. It's like your emotions are chi in certain parts of your body with a certain vibration - similar to how sound is just the air with a certain vibration. You can learn to change the "note" of your emotions quite easily. Apparently in Traditional Chinese Medicine they say each organ is associated with a different emotion. Whether you believe it or not, I have recently been surprised by just how pleasurable it feels to massage my internal organs through my abdominal wall. It actually makes me laugh out loud and sends tingles through my body.
- qwerty456127 7y ago
  > You can learn to change the "note" of your emotions quite easily. Could you share some instruction on this? I've found myself discovering this myself and I feel very interested in information on this somebody could already have developed. I don't feel like I have time to learn the entire Chinese medicine but certain instructions on what I can do within me manipulating my attention to reach particular effects could help a lot.
  - nprateem 7y ago
    There are a couple of practices. The healing sounds are one way (easily googleable) which are pretty good. The Fusion of the Five Elements is more involved and TBH I've found it to be OK. But the best practice I've found is the Secret Smile [1]. By recalling/imagining intensely positive emotions you can prompt your body to recreate them, transforming (or at least diminishing) your current emotional state. It's really no different to having a fantasy. The trick is though that you don't just recall the positive emotions, but you circulate them through your body so they reach every cell, and use deep, relaxed belly breathing to further enhance them. It's a very powerful practice and not only is it useful for higher energetic/meditational practices in its own right, but also teaches you that you don't need to be subject to your emotions - you can use thoughts to change them. [1] https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/9719-dr-morriss-secret-smile-breathing-basic-kap-1-giri-for-the-tao-bumbs/ https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/9719-dr-morriss-secret-smil...

albertshin 7y ago

I've just recently started practicing more with Headspace and have realized this is what I am being guided towards. I wonder has this affected the way you feel more positive emotions like happiness, joy? Or what about empathy?

mbrock 7y ago
Maybe it’s not simply a reduction in duration but more like kind of a cleaner “soundstage” so to speak, where emotional “sounds” ring and decay in a simpler, purer, less distorted or overdriven way. Like taking away the kind of frazzledness you would associate with stress, inner city pressure, burnout etc—so it’s like going for a hike in some mountains, camping by a lake, waking up early and feeling like everything kind of flows more easily, or at least that would be the ideal when you imagine such a hike. If you stub your toe you scream but quickly come to your senses, so you don’t dwell unnecessarily, but it’s not like sitting around a campfire would be less joyful. A calm mind seems to be a good state for joy and empathy. Also it does seem reasonable to say that the default mood towards other people, without any “acute” emotions going on, is a peaceful, relaxed, curious affection—so maybe kind of cleaning up the emotional noise leaves you with a natural good mood.
- albertshin 7y ago
  Appreciate the really detailed reply!
- EGreg 7y ago
  I have never meditated but I do have a lot of work for my startup (especially run ing out of money). I have been wearing dozens of hats for years and have accomplished a lot. I need to improve delegating — if it was properly capitalized. Thus, I seem to have formed an addiction to screens and seem to have constantly a state of mild anxiety about what work I will have to do next. If I wasn’t ambitious I could scale back, but we are almost at the inflection point so now is no time to turn back. My anger etc. (unless I am sleep derived) is minimal even without meditation. Very rarely do I “lose it” and even then it’s rational and with plenty of self deprecation and conflict resolution attempts which the other person has to reject for something to escalate. I’m a while past my 20s and I’m not married and don’t have kids yet. I feel I am behind in some ways. The past few years of 6 days a week work from home (with normal hanging out w friends etc.) have left me in a curious state. Here is my question. I feel pretty apathetic when I’m out, like I’ve already done everything. Camped, hiked, been on rooftops, been in comedy clubs, saw concerts, saw plays. Like it’s more of the same. The best thing for me emotionally is jiving with people who are easygoing and have a good sense of humor. Then it’s not where you are but who you’re with. But I still have this overall sense of “nothing matters”. Like even you have a good time with friends, you’re just on a conveyor belt getting one day closer to the time of death. Sure you can distract yourself with nice conversation on the way but that’s all. No matter how much you accomplish, or do, once you’re not around to see it, it’s in a way totally pointless. I wonder all the time about what consciousness is and study theory of mind and Abrahamic religions. I try to understand what it means and why I am ok with not having been around before a certain year. Now that I am here I find the idea demotivating that one day it will somehow be just like a fictional universe that we are not able to experience. Existence itself is, to me, related to some conscious and possibly intelligent observers. I have gone as far as I can work wise. If I had been doing the same thing day in and day out I would have long ago thrown in the towel and found something else to find meaning in, but my work has reached millions of people and I continue to build a snowball year after year. I realize everything about my life is pretty optimized for my work — I have cut out a commute, I don’t do various prayers and rituals that Jews do daily etc. I just can’t seem to bring myself to do many repetitive things every day unless I know exactly why I am doing them. But I am told by most orthodox Jews they are like meditation. Billions of people live in communities. They uphold traditions those communities have trained them from a young age to do. They accept them. I grew up in individualist USA, live on my own, have no siblings, and have yet to start a family. This has caused this melancholy all the time. I can feel emotions in the moment but when I calm down I am aware it’s all meaningless. And I’ve done most things so the emotions are kinda dulled as well. Sure I can take up a new hobby or busy myself with some other thing. I did those too (and of course they tended to be “productive”). Last summer I built a tent w furniture, for my local Jewish community, and I painted a giant mural w friends by the side of a highway. Things I had never done before. They were fun but now they are in the past. And so we beat on, boats agains the current... borne ceaselessly into the next day. Thoughts? Advice? I don’t think I am depressed, I am just always aware of the futility of it all. Perhaps I should read Ecclesiastes or Seneca.
otakucode 7y ago
I started meditating when I was a young teen, and am 40 now. I go through periods where I don't do it as much, but I've been off and on meditating for quite awhile. Not so much 'mindfulness' meditation as has become the trend lately, but more of the 'empty of everything' style where you count breaths, etc. Fairly similar in results though it seems. Same avoiding of engaging with random thoughts that float by, which was probably the biggest thing I got out of it. Especially when I am stressed, it can become very difficult to sleep as my mind just won't shut down. Meditation helps with that. I don't know if it is meditation or more my studying of philosophy (both in college and on my own time) that has led to my ability to control my emotions better. I would also say my emotions are ephemeral, but that's really because I understand them better. When they are justified, and helpful, I can nurture them and encourage them and indulge in them just fine. And if they're not, usually I can let them pass. There are exceptions, of course, for deep-seated things that I need more repeated attempts at suppression to change. Emotions are essentially a trained response, after all. Even if you intellectually know they're nonsensical, it has to be retrained.
- bradhoffman 7y ago
  Do you have a specific philosopher or type of philosophy that you think contributed most to the better control of your emotions?

agumonkey 7y ago

Honestly, as much as I like to tame down fits of negative emotions. The fact that I can somehow decide to ignore different emotional response aspects of my ~self makes me feel slightly schizophrenic.

sdfin 7y ago
Interestingly you can also practice ignoring the deciding process.

criddell 7y ago

Are happiness and joy also ephemeral?

evil-olive 7y ago
Yes, absolutely. I linked this elsewhere in this thread, a Fresh Air interview [0] with the author of Why Buddhism is True [1] explains better than I can why having happiness be a permanent condition would not make any sense from an evolutionary perspective: > I mean, natural selection built us to do some things - a series of things that help us get genes into the next generation. Those include eating food so we stay alive, having sex, things like that. > And if it were the case that any of these things brought permanent gratification, then we would quit doing them, right? I mean, if you - you would eat. You'd feel blissed out. You'd never eat again. You'd have sex. You'd lie there, basking in the afterglow, never have sex again. Well, obviously, that's not a prescription for getting genes into the next generation. So natural selection seems to have built animals in general to be recurringly dissatisfied. And this is - seems to be a central feature of life, and it's central to the Buddhist diagnosis of what the problem is. A key Buddhist teaching is that dukkha (often translated as "suffering" but I believe "dissatisfaction" is more accurate) is caused not just by pushing away negative feelings, but by trying to not let go of positive feelings. Going out for a beer with my friends brings me happiness. If I chase that positive feeling, I might end up with a vicious hangover the next day, or long-term with a dependence on alcohol. As an oversimplification, you can view any addiction through the lens of taking an ephemeral positive feeling, wishing for it to be permanent, and pursuing it over and over again, rather than accepting the nature of its impermanence. 0: https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=541610511 https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor... 1: https://amazon.com/Why-Buddhism-True-Philosophy-Enlightenment/dp/1439195455 https://amazon.com/Why-Buddhism-True-Philosophy-Enlightenmen...
- monktastic1 7y ago
  At the same time, Buddhism is about transcending samsara and therefore dukkha. It's hard to find a good word to describe the complete absence of all forms of dissatisfaction, but "happiness" is not a terrible first approximation.

akudha 7y ago

Do you use any app, follow any particular style? Any recommendations for a beginner? Also, how long do you meditate in a day? And do you meditate daily?

evil-olive 7y ago
> Do you use any app, follow any particular style? I've tried all of Calm, Headspace, and Insight Timer. I liked Calm's guided meditations; when I started the guiding helped me a lot. I'm currently using Insight Timer purely as a timer without any guidance. The style I follow most closely is vispassana, often translated as "insight" or "seeing the world clearly" or the trendy term "mindfulness". There is no "best" app or "best" style, only what works for each individual. I would caution against falling into a paradox of choice problem where you keep trying different apps or different styles in a search for the "best" one. Much like exercise - the best exercise is whichever one you can do consistently. > Any recommendations for a beginner? This will sound counter-intuitive, but lower your expectations. You'll hear lots of stuff from experienced meditators about how life-changing it is, and I'll echo that sentiment. But it certainly doesn't feel life-changing at first. If you go into it with high expectations, you'll very likely get disappointed and frustrated. > Also, how long do you meditate in a day? And do you meditate daily? I've done 10-15 minutes a day, every day, for the last 800-something days. I've also done two separate silent meditation retreats, of 2 days and 5 days respectively. There are 1440 minutes in a day. If you meditate for 10-15 minutes a day, that's just 1% of the day. Something that helped me establish my daily practice was a commitment that I can do anything if it only takes up 1% of my day.
- wowtip 7y ago
  Could you do it on a 30 minute commute, or is a (most of the time very peaceful) bus trip too much external distractions?
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    I think one could do it on a bus trip after you have been practicing for a while. I got to where I could meditate in a noisy open dormitory.

misev 7y ago

I have noticed the same trend in me, but have never done any meditation so far. It could as well be due to growing older.

jvagner 7y ago
What if you’d meditated when you were younger..?
- qwerty456127 7y ago
  This is a very interesting question. I don't even know whether it actually is good for children to meditate. "Inner dialogue" may be necessary for a young mind to develop. I believe development of mindfulness and silencing of the inner dialogue is a stage of development a person is meant to reach as they become adults. Those who don't reach it become old while keeping immature.
  - bnjms 7y ago
    Correct me if mistaken but isn’t the goal of mindfulness meditation to accept the inner dialogue rather than fighting it? For instance at one point as a child I had a conscience that would talk to me but as I grew older the voice passed into the background. Now my thoughts are the sort of jumbled mess meditators talk about. So I don’t understand why developing the ability to hear and accept these other voices would be a detriment.
    - qwerty456127 7y ago
      It's not the goal, it's the way. It disappears as you actually learn to observe it and everything mindfully all the time. E.g. now I only have inner dialogue when I choose to entertain myself this way and some times I feel too lazy even for this.
qwerty456127 7y ago
It could but this hardly happens to the majority of the people. Just look around and observe how many adults and old people are obsessed with their thoughts (often ridiculous) and feelings, take them very seriously and have very humble introspection/mindfulness skills.

nprateem 7y ago

What's cool is if you learn to work with chi/energy combined with the emotions. Then you realise just how ephemeral they can be and how it's possible to consciously alter your emotions. It's like your emotions are chi in certain parts of your body with a certain vibration - similar to how sound is just the air with a certain vibration. You can learn to change the "note" of your emotions quite easily. Apparently in Traditional Chinese Medicine they say each organ is associated with a different emotion. Whether you believe it or not, I have recently been surprised by just how pleasurable it feels to massage my internal organs through my abdominal wall. It actually makes me laugh out loud and sends tingles through my body.

qwerty456127 7y ago
> You can learn to change the "note" of your emotions quite easily. Could you share some instruction on this? I've found myself discovering this myself and I feel very interested in information on this somebody could already have developed. I don't feel like I have time to learn the entire Chinese medicine but certain instructions on what I can do within me manipulating my attention to reach particular effects could help a lot.
- nprateem 7y ago
  There are a couple of practices. The healing sounds are one way (easily googleable) which are pretty good. The Fusion of the Five Elements is more involved and TBH I've found it to be OK. But the best practice I've found is the Secret Smile [1]. By recalling/imagining intensely positive emotions you can prompt your body to recreate them, transforming (or at least diminishing) your current emotional state. It's really no different to having a fantasy. The trick is though that you don't just recall the positive emotions, but you circulate them through your body so they reach every cell, and use deep, relaxed belly breathing to further enhance them. It's a very powerful practice and not only is it useful for higher energetic/meditational practices in its own right, but also teaches you that you don't need to be subject to your emotions - you can use thoughts to change them. [1] https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/9719-dr-morriss-secret-smile-breathing-basic-kap-1-giri-for-the-tao-bumbs/ https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/9719-dr-morriss-secret-smil...