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> fiat currency is ridiculous If you think this, it's almost certainly because you don't understand it. The basic concept is incredibly simple: it's an abstra

> fiat currency is ridiculous If you think this, it's almost certainly because you don't understand it. The basic concept is incredibly simple: it's an abstraction of value which allows us to avoid having to barter directly with actual goods. Gold and Bitcoin allow you to implement exactly the same thing, but with specific built in supply constraints that aren't connected to the underlying economy. This is a problem for both commodities being used as currency. Ideally, the money supply should be able to expand to reflect the wealth in the underlying economy - otherwise, you get severe inflation or deflation, both of which have negative effects. Of course you didn't say what aspect(s) of fiat currency you consider ridiculous. If you're just saying that governments are too free with their manipulation of the abstraction, there's some merit to that. But that's not a problem with the concept of fiat currency.

AtlasBarfed 7y ago
Everyone bases all their valuations on something that can be devalued or manipulated at will, and only isn't because "smart" people are in charge. If anything we know that we can't rely on good governance, not just from the appalling current administration but the forty years of pro-rich economics that have exacerbated our descent into indolent oligarchy. Therefore our currency is based in an assumption of confidence and ability of the adults in charge. Which we in w to be utterly bankrupt. Your definition of abstract value applies to the concept of currency. Fiat currency is an abstraction of the abstract... That relies on people's visceral sensation of the utility of money in the current moment to serve as the only tangible aspect, and substitute for any real value. Which we know is an illusion, based on a declaration. A "Fiat". My issues with currency are very very deep. Money exists in the modern world where billion year evosystem destruction is converted to short lived production and temporary utility .. with the imbalance of wealth it is even more vapid and shallow.. And money is the laundering mechanism along with "limited liability" to enable this mass sociopathy. That it doesn't even represent anything in reality is the icing on the turd cake. At least the remnants of previous empires have their idols of gold. Ours will just be bits on a flash drive.
- anticensor 7y ago
  > Ours will just be bits on a flash drive. Computer archæologists disagree.
lawn 7y ago
> otherwise, you get severe inflation Say what? Severe inflation is very often caused by how banks and central banks manipulate the money supply, which is much more difficult if the economy uses money with restricted supply. You say that fiat money is connected to the underlying economy, but the supply is really controlled by central banks and regular banks. If we're being nice then they indeed do their best to follow the market, but they can never be perfect and sometimes outright bad at it. It's the same reason why planning economies doesn't work, the market is far too complex to predict. And of course this will have negative effects. > If you're just saying that governments are too free with their manipulation of the abstraction, there's some merit to that. But that's not a problem with the concept of fiat currency. Having the ability to freely control the money supply indeed makes the problem of government (rather bank and central bank) manipulation worse, and to a large extent it's what makes it possible. Yes you can create an abstract IOU-Bitcoin too, but there's no lender of last resort to bail you out when you fail, so you'll have to be much more careful if you decide to do it.

AtlasBarfed 7y ago

Everyone bases all their valuations on something that can be devalued or manipulated at will, and only isn't because "smart" people are in charge. If anything we know that we can't rely on good governance, not just from the appalling current administration but the forty years of pro-rich economics that have exacerbated our descent into indolent oligarchy. Therefore our currency is based in an assumption of confidence and ability of the adults in charge. Which we in w to be utterly bankrupt. Your definition of abstract value applies to the concept of currency. Fiat currency is an abstraction of the abstract... That relies on people's visceral sensation of the utility of money in the current moment to serve as the only tangible aspect, and substitute for any real value. Which we know is an illusion, based on a declaration. A "Fiat". My issues with currency are very very deep. Money exists in the modern world where billion year evosystem destruction is converted to short lived production and temporary utility .. with the imbalance of wealth it is even more vapid and shallow.. And money is the laundering mechanism along with "limited liability" to enable this mass sociopathy. That it doesn't even represent anything in reality is the icing on the turd cake. At least the remnants of previous empires have their idols of gold. Ours will just be bits on a flash drive.

anticensor 7y ago
> Ours will just be bits on a flash drive. Computer archæologists disagree.

lawn 7y ago

> otherwise, you get severe inflation Say what? Severe inflation is very often caused by how banks and central banks manipulate the money supply, which is much more difficult if the economy uses money with restricted supply. You say that fiat money is connected to the underlying economy, but the supply is really controlled by central banks and regular banks. If we're being nice then they indeed do their best to follow the market, but they can never be perfect and sometimes outright bad at it. It's the same reason why planning economies doesn't work, the market is far too complex to predict. And of course this will have negative effects. > If you're just saying that governments are too free with their manipulation of the abstraction, there's some merit to that. But that's not a problem with the concept of fiat currency. Having the ability to freely control the money supply indeed makes the problem of government (rather bank and central bank) manipulation worse, and to a large extent it's what makes it possible. Yes you can create an abstract IOU-Bitcoin too, but there's no lender of last resort to bail you out when you fail, so you'll have to be much more careful if you decide to do it.