4 ms·

Will you guys please stop with the Soros bashing? There's literally no basis for all the BS being spewed about a self-made man like that.

jnordwick 7y ago
Soros is probably about the Koch of the left. I generally think he's a other worse, but that might be my economic biased - I think the Koch brothers are more libertarian than Soros is leftist. So if you have a problem with the Koches because of oversized political power from their wealth, you should also have a problem with Soros for the same reason (independent of their politics).
plemer 7y ago
Calling for a more nuanced rendering of someone’s character isn’t “bashing”, nor does being a “self-made” man disqualify one from criticism.
- turbinerneiter 7y ago
  The whole Soros story is an anti-Semitic smear made up by Orbans team to win elections in Hungary. Nobody would give two shits about Soros if it wasn't for that. No matter how true it might be that he earned some of his money to the detriment of others, the only reason why it's being discussed is is so that Orbans has a virtual enemy to win against.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    Which parts of CEU was founded in 1991 by hedge fund manager, political activist, and philanthropist George Soros [..] A central tenet of the university's philosophy is the promotion of open societies. [1] major donations from some of the nation’s wealthiest liberal foundations, including [..] the Open Society Foundations of the financier George Soros [..]. Over the past decade those donors have invested more than $300 million in immigrant organizations, including many fighting for a pathway to citizenship for immigrants here illegally. [2] are made up? When China opens their Confucius Institutes to expand their soft power and propaganda, this is seen as problematic. But when Soros does the same, it's OK, because you agree with his goals? It shouldn't surprise you that people who don't share his goals view him with hostility. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_European_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_European_University [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/us/obama-immigration-policy-changes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/us/obama-immigration-poli...
    - turbinerneiter 7y ago
      It's not about disagreeing with his goals, it's about stylizing him as a Boogeyman using anti-Semitic tropes for political gains. The people who call Soros their enemy are literally fighting against liberal democracy. Orban himself states as his goal a illiberal democracy. You can disagree with Soros views on immigration, but there is no way in hell you can defend what has been done to him. What Soros advocates is a viable political position, what Orban advocates is the death of democracy.
      - deogeo 7y ago
        > The people who call Soros their enemy are literally fighting against liberal democracy. I haven't kept up with all the things Soros has been accused of (falsely or not), but isn't this statement also making them into boogeymen? They can't possibly be just against a handful of policies he's pushing in their country - they must be against liberal democracy itself? Why are the only two choices Soros, or enemies of liberal democracy? Assuming you didn't use "people who call Soros their enemy" to only refer to Orban's government. I'll agree that Orban (and others) fabricated smears against Soros, but it's false to extend that to "the whole Soros story".
        turbinerneiter 7y ago
        Well, let's try: shoe me one valid point of critisim against Soros promoted ideas that is not illiberal.
        deogeo 7y ago
        I'm not sure if it's liberal or not, but opposition to immigration seems perfectly legitimate to me, and is directly opposed to Soros' goals.
rhizome31 7y ago
If you think about it, the concept of self-made man is a bit weird. Every man comes at least from a woman who carried him for about 9 months. Even if she abandoned him at birth, he must have been taken care of by some people who taught him how to speak, helped him with his first steps, etc. Not to mention the roads he drove on, the food he ate, the knowledge he learned, etc. This concept is problematic in that it negates the fundamentally social nature of humanity. In fact, there have been documented cases of real self-made men in history, but it wasn't particularly pretty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child
- Keloo 7y ago
  I don't really get it. Self-made is about success not about who give you birth or food or shelter etc. unless there is a very strong correlation like you have been educated by someone who is successful. I agree the naming is not the most suggestive but.. read the definition of self-made man: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-made_man https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-made_man

jnordwick 7y ago

Soros is probably about the Koch of the left. I generally think he's a other worse, but that might be my economic biased - I think the Koch brothers are more libertarian than Soros is leftist. So if you have a problem with the Koches because of oversized political power from their wealth, you should also have a problem with Soros for the same reason (independent of their politics).

plemer 7y ago

Calling for a more nuanced rendering of someone’s character isn’t “bashing”, nor does being a “self-made” man disqualify one from criticism.

turbinerneiter 7y ago
The whole Soros story is an anti-Semitic smear made up by Orbans team to win elections in Hungary. Nobody would give two shits about Soros if it wasn't for that. No matter how true it might be that he earned some of his money to the detriment of others, the only reason why it's being discussed is is so that Orbans has a virtual enemy to win against.
- deogeo 7y ago
  Which parts of CEU was founded in 1991 by hedge fund manager, political activist, and philanthropist George Soros [..] A central tenet of the university's philosophy is the promotion of open societies. [1] major donations from some of the nation’s wealthiest liberal foundations, including [..] the Open Society Foundations of the financier George Soros [..]. Over the past decade those donors have invested more than $300 million in immigrant organizations, including many fighting for a pathway to citizenship for immigrants here illegally. [2] are made up? When China opens their Confucius Institutes to expand their soft power and propaganda, this is seen as problematic. But when Soros does the same, it's OK, because you agree with his goals? It shouldn't surprise you that people who don't share his goals view him with hostility. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_European_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_European_University [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/us/obama-immigration-policy-changes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/us/obama-immigration-poli...
  - turbinerneiter 7y ago
    It's not about disagreeing with his goals, it's about stylizing him as a Boogeyman using anti-Semitic tropes for political gains. The people who call Soros their enemy are literally fighting against liberal democracy. Orban himself states as his goal a illiberal democracy. You can disagree with Soros views on immigration, but there is no way in hell you can defend what has been done to him. What Soros advocates is a viable political position, what Orban advocates is the death of democracy.
    - deogeo 7y ago
      > The people who call Soros their enemy are literally fighting against liberal democracy. I haven't kept up with all the things Soros has been accused of (falsely or not), but isn't this statement also making them into boogeymen? They can't possibly be just against a handful of policies he's pushing in their country - they must be against liberal democracy itself? Why are the only two choices Soros, or enemies of liberal democracy? Assuming you didn't use "people who call Soros their enemy" to only refer to Orban's government. I'll agree that Orban (and others) fabricated smears against Soros, but it's false to extend that to "the whole Soros story".
      - turbinerneiter 7y ago
        Well, let's try: shoe me one valid point of critisim against Soros promoted ideas that is not illiberal.
        deogeo 7y ago
        I'm not sure if it's liberal or not, but opposition to immigration seems perfectly legitimate to me, and is directly opposed to Soros' goals.

rhizome31 7y ago

If you think about it, the concept of self-made man is a bit weird. Every man comes at least from a woman who carried him for about 9 months. Even if she abandoned him at birth, he must have been taken care of by some people who taught him how to speak, helped him with his first steps, etc. Not to mention the roads he drove on, the food he ate, the knowledge he learned, etc. This concept is problematic in that it negates the fundamentally social nature of humanity. In fact, there have been documented cases of real self-made men in history, but it wasn't particularly pretty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child

Keloo 7y ago
I don't really get it. Self-made is about success not about who give you birth or food or shelter etc. unless there is a very strong correlation like you have been educated by someone who is successful. I agree the naming is not the most suggestive but.. read the definition of self-made man: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-made_man https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-made_man