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Sahara desert is greening. How is that a bad problem? Furthermore Sahara used to be a jungle and that disappear long before we ever started using CO2. The clim

Sahara desert is greening. How is that a bad problem? Furthermore Sahara used to be a jungle and that disappear long before we ever started using CO2. The climate is always changing. I am celebrating every day that fossil fuels have made life better and safer for us in the west. What I am fearing is that well meaning but fundamentally ignorant climate catastrophism will make it harder for the worlds poorest to get access to the very energy they need to fight any change in climate.

Retric 7y ago
> long before we ever started using CO2 That’s not technically true. While unrelated, humans have been burning coal for at least 5500 years where the current Sahara desert is only around 4,500-8,000 years olds. Considering how long we have been using fires, coal use could actually vastly predate this event, though again the impact of such usage would have been minimal. Again, several vastly more likely causes exist from livestock grazing to purely natural climate shifts.
- ThomPete 7y ago
  You are making things up now.
  - Retric 7y ago
    Archeological evidence in China indicates surface mining of coal and household usage after approximately 3490 BC. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining The underlying causes of this drying and desertification has previously been attributed to subtle changes in the Earth’s orbit, which in turn influenced atmospheric weather patterns and led to a reduction of the amount of rainfall in northern Africa. But Wright, whose scientific research has led him to exploring Neolithic-age archaeological sites all over the world, suggests that this is not the full picture. “In East Asia there are long established theories of how Neolithic populations changed the landscape so profoundly that monsoons stopped penetrating so far inland”, explains Wright, also noting in his paper that evidence of human-driven ecological and climatic change has been documented in Europe, North America and New Zealand. Wright believed that similar scenarios could also apply to the Sahara. https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/03/14/did-humans-create-the-sahara-desert/ https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/03/14/did-humans-create-th...
    - ThomPete 7y ago
      Again. You are making things up. This is pure speculation not proving anything.
acqq 7y ago
> Sahara desert is greening And the amount of greening that is possible is also a part of the models: we know that it can't save us from the increase in CO2 which is pushed to the atmosphere orders of magnitude faster. Even if in some areas some plants will appear, the climatic changes in the whole world will be seriously problematic for most of human population and most of the rest of the nature. It's a classical red herring: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
- ThomPete 7y ago
  I know what a red herring is, that's not that it's a simple fact that goes counter to the claim about catastrophic climate change. You have no proof for your claim, it's a non-testable hypothesis and the only thing you are relying on is computer climate models notorious for fitting and underappreciating negative feedback loops which have resulted in less than stellar predictability.

Retric 7y ago

> long before we ever started using CO2 That’s not technically true. While unrelated, humans have been burning coal for at least 5500 years where the current Sahara desert is only around 4,500-8,000 years olds. Considering how long we have been using fires, coal use could actually vastly predate this event, though again the impact of such usage would have been minimal. Again, several vastly more likely causes exist from livestock grazing to purely natural climate shifts.

ThomPete 7y ago
You are making things up now.
- Retric 7y ago
  Archeological evidence in China indicates surface mining of coal and household usage after approximately 3490 BC. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining The underlying causes of this drying and desertification has previously been attributed to subtle changes in the Earth’s orbit, which in turn influenced atmospheric weather patterns and led to a reduction of the amount of rainfall in northern Africa. But Wright, whose scientific research has led him to exploring Neolithic-age archaeological sites all over the world, suggests that this is not the full picture. “In East Asia there are long established theories of how Neolithic populations changed the landscape so profoundly that monsoons stopped penetrating so far inland”, explains Wright, also noting in his paper that evidence of human-driven ecological and climatic change has been documented in Europe, North America and New Zealand. Wright believed that similar scenarios could also apply to the Sahara. https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/03/14/did-humans-create-the-sahara-desert/ https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/03/14/did-humans-create-th...
  - ThomPete 7y ago
    Again. You are making things up. This is pure speculation not proving anything.

acqq 7y ago

> Sahara desert is greening And the amount of greening that is possible is also a part of the models: we know that it can't save us from the increase in CO2 which is pushed to the atmosphere orders of magnitude faster. Even if in some areas some plants will appear, the climatic changes in the whole world will be seriously problematic for most of human population and most of the rest of the nature. It's a classical red herring: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

ThomPete 7y ago
I know what a red herring is, that's not that it's a simple fact that goes counter to the claim about catastrophic climate change. You have no proof for your claim, it's a non-testable hypothesis and the only thing you are relying on is computer climate models notorious for fitting and underappreciating negative feedback loops which have resulted in less than stellar predictability.