4 ms·

So what is the solution to corruption? It does seem like it's getting worse, or maybe media coverage about it is getting better. Has any country in the world

So what is the solution to corruption? It does seem like it's getting worse, or maybe media coverage about it is getting better. Has any country in the world successfully fought corruption in a peaceful way? (ie. no revolutions, no guillotines)

buboard 7y ago
Most of the west is not corrupt. You have to visit eastern europe, latin america, middle east and east asia to experience it The solution is not throwing more free money in public coffers. It definitively exacerbated corruption in greece for example
- ta1234567890 7y ago
  So you are saying that free money is not a solution. Ok, then what is a solution? Also, how do you measure and compare corruption? The US has gone to war killing millions of people, including hundreds of thousands of their own, motivated by (oil/industrial-military) money and justified with lies. The US political system is controlled mostly by corporations and rich people that pay for lobbying. So are you saying the west is not corrupt because it is more publicly/"legally" corrupt?
  - joyeuse6701 7y ago
    I do agree with the sentiment that via political donations the U.S. political system is corrupted, but I hope you can offer a citation for the millions killed and hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens, and a clear cause and effect of the stated motivation, please. I think most of what you said is an overstatement, not to belittle those that suffered because of greed.
    - ta1234567890 7y ago
      You are right, millions might be an exaggeration, I was going off of numbers read elsewhere online. Here's a source that estimates total deaths, post-9/11 so far (by November 2018) at hundreds of thousands: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2018/Human%20Costs%2C%20Nov%208%202018%20CoW.pdf https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/20... That doesn't take into account the previous war with Iraq. By the way, I never said US citizens. Do you think US citizens' lives are somehow more important than people from other parts of the world? Also, oil/greed seems to be the most apparent motivation (you might want to watch the movie Vice, or just revise non-US media coverage from the time). It would be great if you could provide a source that has a clear (real) cause/effect of whatever motivated the US to start a war with Iraq and Afghanistan, and please don't say weapons of mass destruction.
      - joyeuse6701 7y ago
        I'm limiting it to U.S. citizens (soldiers) because I can with some confidence say that U.S. policy at least can be traced as a cause of their death. No, I don't think US citizen's lives are more important defacto, but I don't see all lives as equal either, for the record. Oil/greed fit the leftist narrative, but I'm not convinced, and since you made the claim that it's about oil and greed, the onus is on you to prove it! I don't have to provide motivation of my own, though I suspect two planes crashing into a building might have something to do with it.
        ta1234567890 7y ago
        > I suspect two planes crashing into a building might have something to do with it. The first war with Iraq was pre-9/11, so nothing to do with two planes. Now, about 9/11, what did Iraq or Afghanistan had to do with those planes? If anything, the US should have gone to war with Saudi Arabia, whose citizens piloted those planes. So how do those planes justify going to war with two totally different countries, that potentially had nothing to do with 9/11? Or how do those planes justify going to war at all? Has killing thousands more people somehow redeemed or justified the deaths of people during 9/11?
        pgcj_poster 7y ago
        > I don't see all lives as equal ?!
        jacquesm 7y ago
        > but I don't see all lives as equal either, for the record. On the off chance of you having some plausible explanation for this outrageous statement I invite you to expand on this.
- damck 7y ago
  Which west? The one that has legal corruption under name of lobbying? Or the west which has internally, without the need of pescy public's say, elected chair of governance?
- bsanr2 7y ago
  >Most of the west is not corrupt. That's laughable.

buboard 7y ago

Most of the west is not corrupt. You have to visit eastern europe, latin america, middle east and east asia to experience it The solution is not throwing more free money in public coffers. It definitively exacerbated corruption in greece for example

ta1234567890 7y ago
So you are saying that free money is not a solution. Ok, then what is a solution? Also, how do you measure and compare corruption? The US has gone to war killing millions of people, including hundreds of thousands of their own, motivated by (oil/industrial-military) money and justified with lies. The US political system is controlled mostly by corporations and rich people that pay for lobbying. So are you saying the west is not corrupt because it is more publicly/"legally" corrupt?
- joyeuse6701 7y ago
  I do agree with the sentiment that via political donations the U.S. political system is corrupted, but I hope you can offer a citation for the millions killed and hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens, and a clear cause and effect of the stated motivation, please. I think most of what you said is an overstatement, not to belittle those that suffered because of greed.
  - ta1234567890 7y ago
    You are right, millions might be an exaggeration, I was going off of numbers read elsewhere online. Here's a source that estimates total deaths, post-9/11 so far (by November 2018) at hundreds of thousands: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2018/Human%20Costs%2C%20Nov%208%202018%20CoW.pdf https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/20... That doesn't take into account the previous war with Iraq. By the way, I never said US citizens. Do you think US citizens' lives are somehow more important than people from other parts of the world? Also, oil/greed seems to be the most apparent motivation (you might want to watch the movie Vice, or just revise non-US media coverage from the time). It would be great if you could provide a source that has a clear (real) cause/effect of whatever motivated the US to start a war with Iraq and Afghanistan, and please don't say weapons of mass destruction.
    - joyeuse6701 7y ago
      I'm limiting it to U.S. citizens (soldiers) because I can with some confidence say that U.S. policy at least can be traced as a cause of their death. No, I don't think US citizen's lives are more important defacto, but I don't see all lives as equal either, for the record. Oil/greed fit the leftist narrative, but I'm not convinced, and since you made the claim that it's about oil and greed, the onus is on you to prove it! I don't have to provide motivation of my own, though I suspect two planes crashing into a building might have something to do with it.
      - ta1234567890 7y ago
        > I suspect two planes crashing into a building might have something to do with it. The first war with Iraq was pre-9/11, so nothing to do with two planes. Now, about 9/11, what did Iraq or Afghanistan had to do with those planes? If anything, the US should have gone to war with Saudi Arabia, whose citizens piloted those planes. So how do those planes justify going to war with two totally different countries, that potentially had nothing to do with 9/11? Or how do those planes justify going to war at all? Has killing thousands more people somehow redeemed or justified the deaths of people during 9/11?
      - pgcj_poster 7y ago
        > I don't see all lives as equal ?!
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        > but I don't see all lives as equal either, for the record. On the off chance of you having some plausible explanation for this outrageous statement I invite you to expand on this.
damck 7y ago
Which west? The one that has legal corruption under name of lobbying? Or the west which has internally, without the need of pescy public's say, elected chair of governance?
bsanr2 7y ago
>Most of the west is not corrupt. That's laughable.