4 ms·

As an European...what? Am not saying the system is problem free, but I've had multiple surgeries done for free, whereas in the U.S I'd most likely go bankrupt.

As an European...what? Am not saying the system is problem free, but I've had multiple surgeries done for free, whereas in the U.S I'd most likely go bankrupt. Also the point about waiting, not only did I not have to wait, but are you seriously comparing this to a system where I don't have to wait if am wealthy, but can wait until I die if am not?

Frondo 7y ago
There are long waiting times to access American health care too, anyway, even with insurance. I feel like the people who make those sorts of claims must never do more than use the ER or walk-in clinics.
rayiner 7y ago
The medical bankruptcy thing is a misleading narrative: https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/263547-the-myth-of-medical-bankruptcy https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/263... > A study published in the journal Health Affairs reviewed Justice Department data and discovered that among Americans who cited medical debt as a contributing factor in their bankruptcy filing, only 12 to 13 percent of their total debts were medical. Also the studies that are invoked for that proposition don’t distinguish between bankruptcies due to medical bills and bankruptcies resulting from reduced income due to health issues.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Regular people have ended up in debt just to live, and can carry a surprising amount. If we build a society where everyone carries debt, often ongoing, it's hardly surprising just bunging another few thousand or tens of thousands surprise medical debt at them may break them. Even if it turns out to be just a proportion of total. Your link makes no mention of mortgage or home loans. If they are included in the debts at bankruptcy, it's not in the least surprising that medical debt is "only" 12%.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    The underlying DOJ review is addressed here: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.25.w74 https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.25.w74 The 12-13% was unsecured debt (which would exclude mortgages, which are secured by the house). > This past year, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) responded to a request by Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) by examining 5,203 bankruptcy cases from the files of the U.S. Trustee Program. The filings occurred between 2000 and 2002, the same time frame as the filings studied by Himmelstein and colleagues. The DOJ reported that 90 percent of filers had medical debt of less than $5,000. Of those reporting medical debts, those debts accounted for only 13 percent of total unsecured debt. The DOJ summarizes the evidence against Himmelstein and colleagues' thesis as follows: “The conclusion that almost 50 percent of consumer bankruptcies are ‘medical related’ requires a broad definition and generally is not substantiated by the official documents filed by debtors.” The study is a little old, but the “medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy” trope is also old.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      OK, that rules out my second point then. Still the first applies. I don't find it terribly surprising that $5k could break someone's back. Plenty of folks seem to run at maximum possible credit. Others will no doubt be able to take it on the chin. Never heard of it being the leading cause of US bankruptcy btw. My distinctly European perspective is it's problematic it's a possible cause at all.
      - stjohnswarts 7y ago
        It's not the 5K that does it, it's the $500k for heart surgery that will do it every time.
AdrianB1 7y ago
Yes, there are many success stories of people using the healthcare system in Europe (EU, more precisely), more than people winning the lottery, but there are also many stories of people dying because of the failures. In a few countries (especially Germany) the system still works pretty well, but in the majority it does not, it is in various degrees of failure.
- andrekandre 7y ago
  what do you think the cause of that is? and why does germany still work well?

Frondo 7y ago

There are long waiting times to access American health care too, anyway, even with insurance. I feel like the people who make those sorts of claims must never do more than use the ER or walk-in clinics.

rayiner 7y ago

The medical bankruptcy thing is a misleading narrative: https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/263547-the-myth-of-medical-bankruptcy https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/263... > A study published in the journal Health Affairs reviewed Justice Department data and discovered that among Americans who cited medical debt as a contributing factor in their bankruptcy filing, only 12 to 13 percent of their total debts were medical. Also the studies that are invoked for that proposition don’t distinguish between bankruptcies due to medical bills and bankruptcies resulting from reduced income due to health issues.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Regular people have ended up in debt just to live, and can carry a surprising amount. If we build a society where everyone carries debt, often ongoing, it's hardly surprising just bunging another few thousand or tens of thousands surprise medical debt at them may break them. Even if it turns out to be just a proportion of total. Your link makes no mention of mortgage or home loans. If they are included in the debts at bankruptcy, it's not in the least surprising that medical debt is "only" 12%.
- rayiner 7y ago
  The underlying DOJ review is addressed here: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.25.w74 https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.25.w74 The 12-13% was unsecured debt (which would exclude mortgages, which are secured by the house). > This past year, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) responded to a request by Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) by examining 5,203 bankruptcy cases from the files of the U.S. Trustee Program. The filings occurred between 2000 and 2002, the same time frame as the filings studied by Himmelstein and colleagues. The DOJ reported that 90 percent of filers had medical debt of less than $5,000. Of those reporting medical debts, those debts accounted for only 13 percent of total unsecured debt. The DOJ summarizes the evidence against Himmelstein and colleagues' thesis as follows: “The conclusion that almost 50 percent of consumer bankruptcies are ‘medical related’ requires a broad definition and generally is not substantiated by the official documents filed by debtors.” The study is a little old, but the “medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy” trope is also old.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    OK, that rules out my second point then. Still the first applies. I don't find it terribly surprising that $5k could break someone's back. Plenty of folks seem to run at maximum possible credit. Others will no doubt be able to take it on the chin. Never heard of it being the leading cause of US bankruptcy btw. My distinctly European perspective is it's problematic it's a possible cause at all.
    - stjohnswarts 7y ago
      It's not the 5K that does it, it's the $500k for heart surgery that will do it every time.

AdrianB1 7y ago

Yes, there are many success stories of people using the healthcare system in Europe (EU, more precisely), more than people winning the lottery, but there are also many stories of people dying because of the failures. In a few countries (especially Germany) the system still works pretty well, but in the majority it does not, it is in various degrees of failure.

andrekandre 7y ago
what do you think the cause of that is? and why does germany still work well?