4 ms·

Doesn't help that prop 47 in California makes thefts under $1,000 a misdemeanor, so if you get caught stealing them you just get a slap on the wrist. Oh pleas

Doesn't help that prop 47 in California makes thefts under $1,000 a misdemeanor, so if you get caught stealing them you just get a slap on the wrist. Oh please. This old chestnut? If the police won't enforce misdemeanors that's on them, not Prop 47. Misdemeanors can see sentences of up to just under a year which should provide you plenty of time to punish a thief. Do we really need life sentences for stealing catalytic converters? Meanwhile NAPA lists one cat for a 2013 Prius at about $1000 and the other one at about $500. And those are the cheapie ones that aren't legal to install in California/NY. A pair of legit cats that're CARB certified (likely only available through Toyota proper) is going to be even further into felony territory. To be clear, you may be able to get a legit set installed for less than $1,000 (and you could have your friend's uncle install a used one on the sly for cheap I'm sure), but I wouldn't consider that typical and I doubt the court would bat an eye at charging your typical catcon theft as a felony. IOW Prop. 47 is not behind the uptick in crime.

fortran77 7y ago
This is not an "old chestnut" it's true. Ever since prop 47, certain crimes like shoplifting and porch piracy have increased by 10x (an order of magnitude). You will not spend any time in jail for these crimes
- elliekelly 7y ago
  Could it be that prop 47 passed right around the time IoT became mainstream & DIY surveillance systems became affordable? Perhaps those crimes are just reported more frequently now because people are likely to have solid evidence to provide police. I never would have reported a stolen package to police before I had a camera system.
  - DrScump 7y ago
    & DIY surveillance systems became affordable? You're claiming that the presence of cheap surveillance systems increase the occurrence of theft? City governments in SV don't seek to have property crime prosecuted here because they view it as economic stimulus.
    - elliekelly 7y ago
      > You're claiming that the presence of cheap surveillance systems increase the occurrence of theft? No, that’s not at all what I’m saying. I’m suggesting cheap surveillance systems might increase the reporting of theft to law enforcement. Increased reports of a crime does not necessarily mean that crime has is being perpetrated more frequently.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  In fairness to the people of California, they got hosed by a lot of "tough on crime" laws in the past. When they made these 3 strikes laws and then you had murderers and rapists being released to make room for non violent felony offenders convicted after 3 strikes. So I imagine people in California are a whole lot more careful with rhetoric like that these days. No, they probably aren't gonna let you make what are obviously less serious crimes into crimes that have equivalent terms to inmates convicted of, say, 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. (The way these tough on crime laws tend to work, sometimes the nonviolent criminals get longer terms than the violent criminals.) If you want support in getting tough on crime, than get tough on the high end, life ending type crimes. Don't try to convince people to fill their prisons with bicycle and muffler thieves. Prisons are expensive, there should be a good cost benefit ratio for every inmate you incarcerate. If you absolutely believe you have to do something tough to muffler thieves, then hey, they seem extremely good candidates for ankle bracelets. (Which you can do right now charging them with misdemeanors. No need to change any laws.) But years in prison at 30 Grand a pop, (probably more in some states), should be completely out of the question. It's not worth that much.
- birdyrooster 7y ago
  Please don’t back up unsubstantiated claims with “it’s true”. Please read HN commenting rules. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html This type of conversation is an uninteresting back and forth of opinion unless you provide sources.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - fortran77 7y ago
    https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/06/12/proposition-47-crime-statistics/ https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/06/12/proposition-47-cr... https://www.ppic.org/press-release/proposition-47-linked-to-increase-in-some-property-crimes-but-not-violent-crime/ https://www.ppic.org/press-release/proposition-47-linked-to-... http://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=9417 http://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=9417 https://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-prop47-anniversary-20151106-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-prop47-anniversary...
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      The ballot measure led to the lowest arrest rate in state history in 2015 as experts said police frequently ignored crimes that brought minimal punishment. IOW, the police aren't doing their jobs. That's not the fault of Prop 47.
      - masonic 7y ago
        Police don't pursue by departmental policy set well up the chain of command.
        fortran77 7y ago
        I backed it up with 4 sources, and I get criticized. Meanwhile, someone who calls the fact that Prop 47 leads to more crime gets honored and venerated here. If you want to be pro-crime, fine. That's your right. But don't lie about it.

fortran77 7y ago

This is not an "old chestnut" it's true. Ever since prop 47, certain crimes like shoplifting and porch piracy have increased by 10x (an order of magnitude). You will not spend any time in jail for these crimes

elliekelly 7y ago
Could it be that prop 47 passed right around the time IoT became mainstream & DIY surveillance systems became affordable? Perhaps those crimes are just reported more frequently now because people are likely to have solid evidence to provide police. I never would have reported a stolen package to police before I had a camera system.
- DrScump 7y ago
  & DIY surveillance systems became affordable? You're claiming that the presence of cheap surveillance systems increase the occurrence of theft? City governments in SV don't seek to have property crime prosecuted here because they view it as economic stimulus.
  - elliekelly 7y ago
    > You're claiming that the presence of cheap surveillance systems increase the occurrence of theft? No, that’s not at all what I’m saying. I’m suggesting cheap surveillance systems might increase the reporting of theft to law enforcement. Increased reports of a crime does not necessarily mean that crime has is being perpetrated more frequently.
bilbo0s 7y ago
In fairness to the people of California, they got hosed by a lot of "tough on crime" laws in the past. When they made these 3 strikes laws and then you had murderers and rapists being released to make room for non violent felony offenders convicted after 3 strikes. So I imagine people in California are a whole lot more careful with rhetoric like that these days. No, they probably aren't gonna let you make what are obviously less serious crimes into crimes that have equivalent terms to inmates convicted of, say, 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. (The way these tough on crime laws tend to work, sometimes the nonviolent criminals get longer terms than the violent criminals.) If you want support in getting tough on crime, than get tough on the high end, life ending type crimes. Don't try to convince people to fill their prisons with bicycle and muffler thieves. Prisons are expensive, there should be a good cost benefit ratio for every inmate you incarcerate. If you absolutely believe you have to do something tough to muffler thieves, then hey, they seem extremely good candidates for ankle bracelets. (Which you can do right now charging them with misdemeanors. No need to change any laws.) But years in prison at 30 Grand a pop, (probably more in some states), should be completely out of the question. It's not worth that much.
birdyrooster 7y ago
Please don’t back up unsubstantiated claims with “it’s true”. Please read HN commenting rules. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html This type of conversation is an uninteresting back and forth of opinion unless you provide sources.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- fortran77 7y ago
  https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/06/12/proposition-47-crime-statistics/ https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/06/12/proposition-47-cr... https://www.ppic.org/press-release/proposition-47-linked-to-increase-in-some-property-crimes-but-not-violent-crime/ https://www.ppic.org/press-release/proposition-47-linked-to-... http://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=9417 http://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=9417 https://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-prop47-anniversary-20151106-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-prop47-anniversary...
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    The ballot measure led to the lowest arrest rate in state history in 2015 as experts said police frequently ignored crimes that brought minimal punishment. IOW, the police aren't doing their jobs. That's not the fault of Prop 47.
    - masonic 7y ago
      Police don't pursue by departmental policy set well up the chain of command.
      - fortran77 7y ago
        I backed it up with 4 sources, and I get criticized. Meanwhile, someone who calls the fact that Prop 47 leads to more crime gets honored and venerated here. If you want to be pro-crime, fine. That's your right. But don't lie about it.