6 ms·

More on Chrome updates and headers (2018)

44 points by Ratanay 7y ago

srbby 7y ago
>As, the Verge already explained, Chrome is turning into the new IE6 (in case you wonder, that’s not a compliment). Not only is Google making some services running faster on Chrome, the browser also sends information only to Google. Did Microsoft make their services run faster on IE6? Did IE6 send information only to Microsoft?
- The_rationalist 7y ago
  the browser also sends information only to Google It's trivial to replace chrome by chromium tough
  - Ratanay 7y ago
    The x-client-data header is also sent by Chromium.
- 542458 7y ago
  Yeah, that’s kinda weirdly explained - IIRC MS had OS features that were only available to IE (I don’t remember whether those features were performance-related), while Google has browser features that are only available to Google properties.
- pcr910303 7y ago
  > Did Microsoft make their services run faster on IE6? Did IE6 send information only to Microsoft? The web is the new OS. Microsoft made use of certain private Windows APIs to win the browser war (by providing features exclusive to IE). I think it’s a pretty apt analogy.
- JimDabell 7y ago
  > Did Microsoft make their services run faster on IE6? Yes. Internet Explorer used to send out-of-spec TCP packets during the initial handshake that IIS would respond to also in an out of spec way. This had the effect of speeding up subsequent requests, but only in the case of IE talking to IIS.
  - muststopmyths 7y ago
    I presume you are referring to this sort of thing: http://grotto11.com/blog/slash.html?+1039831658 http://grotto11.com/blog/slash.html?+1039831658 It is perfectly within spec to send data on a half-closed TCP connection, from the other end. That is exactly what the shutdown(SD_SEND) socket call is for. It signals the stack to send a FIN so that the other side can send data but knows to not expect more. They were probably implementing a version of HTTP 1.1 (before it became a formalized standard) that did not break existing clients (or servers) but speeded up theirs. BTW, I find it hard to believe IIS was sending more data after sending a FIN. Let's just say I worked in the vicinity of the Windows networking org in those days. I know it's not a popular history to believe among the SV crowd, but Microsoft in those days would bend over backwards for ISVs (Independent Software Vendors, or companies that wrote software for Windows) if they just whispered "your products are using undocumented APIs that I don't have access to". Regardless of whether that claim was true or not, they would work overtime to dispel the notion. The were just getting put under the anti-trust microscope, with a consent decree signed in 1994 and a bigger suit was obviously coming soon. Of course, when google does something similar with QUIC/SPDY, it's the second coming of Christ. Definitely not a way to boost their browser/core business. edit:typos
- sys_64738 7y ago
  Isn't this comment really tied to a particular version of Chrome though? Even Microsoft couldn't push later versions of IE due to IE6 domination.
- est 7y ago
  > Did Microsoft make their services run faster on IE6? Yes, the pillar of Web 2.0, the AJAX, was implemented in IE5.5 first with XMLHTTPReques.
_jomo 7y ago
I keep wondering why people who seemingly care about their privacy continue to use Google products/services, doing all their online activity while logged in to their Google account.
- zamadatix 7y ago
  The opportunity cost of privacy on the web is greater than your average person is willing to pay.
- srbby 7y ago
  Because Chrome is the fastest browser[] and Google services are usually the best. []Perhaps that will change once they nerf ad blockers.
  - seieste 7y ago
    Chrome is the fastest browser for YouTube because Google intentionally made it slow on other browsers. So, sometimes this speed is just the result of monopolistic actions.
    - sys_64738 7y ago
      I think this is the value of others like Vivaldi and Microsoft standardizing on the Chrome web page engine. They will strip away any ad company privacy layers. Only Firefox is truly free at this time and Safari doing whatever they do.
      - izacus 7y ago
        Safari's implementation of AdBlockers is the same as the one that's planned and criticized for Chrome - isn't it a bit wierd to bring it into this debate?
        sys_64738 7y ago
        I just see Apple has been being naughty with Safari. Slap on the wrists for them.
CharlesW 7y ago
Is there such a thing as "CleanChrome", meaning the good technical bits without this kind of Google business-driven terribleness? As background, I feel like I've given Firefox enough chances, and am not interested in Brave given their history of anti-creator choices. (I'd consider Safari, but its extensions model seems too limited for "Tabs Outliner"-style extensions.)
- rasz 7y ago
  Vivaldi if you are willing to live with UI coded in Javascript (slow).
- hackerbrother 7y ago
  edge, right?
  - JetSpiegel 7y ago
    It's the circle of life.

44 points by Ratanay 7y ago

>As, the Verge already explained, Chrome is turning into the new IE6 (in case you wonder, that’s not a compliment). Not only is Google making some services running faster on Chrome, the browser also sends information only to Google. Did Microsoft make their services run faster on IE6? Did IE6 send information only to Microsoft?

The_rationalist 7y ago
the browser also sends information only to Google It's trivial to replace chrome by chromium tough
- Ratanay 7y ago
  The x-client-data header is also sent by Chromium.
542458 7y ago
Yeah, that’s kinda weirdly explained - IIRC MS had OS features that were only available to IE (I don’t remember whether those features were performance-related), while Google has browser features that are only available to Google properties.
pcr910303 7y ago
> Did Microsoft make their services run faster on IE6? Did IE6 send information only to Microsoft? The web is the new OS. Microsoft made use of certain private Windows APIs to win the browser war (by providing features exclusive to IE). I think it’s a pretty apt analogy.
JimDabell 7y ago
> Did Microsoft make their services run faster on IE6? Yes. Internet Explorer used to send out-of-spec TCP packets during the initial handshake that IIS would respond to also in an out of spec way. This had the effect of speeding up subsequent requests, but only in the case of IE talking to IIS.
- muststopmyths 7y ago
  I presume you are referring to this sort of thing: http://grotto11.com/blog/slash.html?+1039831658 http://grotto11.com/blog/slash.html?+1039831658 It is perfectly within spec to send data on a half-closed TCP connection, from the other end. That is exactly what the shutdown(SD_SEND) socket call is for. It signals the stack to send a FIN so that the other side can send data but knows to not expect more. They were probably implementing a version of HTTP 1.1 (before it became a formalized standard) that did not break existing clients (or servers) but speeded up theirs. BTW, I find it hard to believe IIS was sending more data after sending a FIN. Let's just say I worked in the vicinity of the Windows networking org in those days. I know it's not a popular history to believe among the SV crowd, but Microsoft in those days would bend over backwards for ISVs (Independent Software Vendors, or companies that wrote software for Windows) if they just whispered "your products are using undocumented APIs that I don't have access to". Regardless of whether that claim was true or not, they would work overtime to dispel the notion. The were just getting put under the anti-trust microscope, with a consent decree signed in 1994 and a bigger suit was obviously coming soon. Of course, when google does something similar with QUIC/SPDY, it's the second coming of Christ. Definitely not a way to boost their browser/core business. edit:typos
sys_64738 7y ago
Isn't this comment really tied to a particular version of Chrome though? Even Microsoft couldn't push later versions of IE due to IE6 domination.
est 7y ago
> Did Microsoft make their services run faster on IE6? Yes, the pillar of Web 2.0, the AJAX, was implemented in IE5.5 first with XMLHTTPReques.

_jomo 7y ago

I keep wondering why people who seemingly care about their privacy continue to use Google products/services, doing all their online activity while logged in to their Google account.

zamadatix 7y ago
The opportunity cost of privacy on the web is greater than your average person is willing to pay.
srbby 7y ago
Because Chrome is the fastest browser[] and Google services are usually the best. []Perhaps that will change once they nerf ad blockers.
- seieste 7y ago
  Chrome is the fastest browser for YouTube because Google intentionally made it slow on other browsers. So, sometimes this speed is just the result of monopolistic actions.
  - sys_64738 7y ago
    I think this is the value of others like Vivaldi and Microsoft standardizing on the Chrome web page engine. They will strip away any ad company privacy layers. Only Firefox is truly free at this time and Safari doing whatever they do.
    - izacus 7y ago
      Safari's implementation of AdBlockers is the same as the one that's planned and criticized for Chrome - isn't it a bit wierd to bring it into this debate?
      - sys_64738 7y ago
        I just see Apple has been being naughty with Safari. Slap on the wrists for them.

CharlesW 7y ago

Is there such a thing as "CleanChrome", meaning the good technical bits without this kind of Google business-driven terribleness? As background, I feel like I've given Firefox enough chances, and am not interested in Brave given their history of anti-creator choices. (I'd consider Safari, but its extensions model seems too limited for "Tabs Outliner"-style extensions.)

rasz 7y ago
Vivaldi if you are willing to live with UI coded in Javascript (slow).
hackerbrother 7y ago
edge, right?
- JetSpiegel 7y ago
  It's the circle of life.