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California has seen an insane uptick in converter thefts from Priuses. Doesn't help that prop 47 in California makes thefts under $1,000 a misdemeanor, so if y

California has seen an insane uptick in converter thefts from Priuses. Doesn't help that prop 47 in California makes thefts under $1,000 a misdemeanor, so if you get caught stealing them you just get a slap on the wrist. Can't they charge them with some federal crime since they are altering an emissions system? Something needs to be done about scrap metal buyers and the people who sell to them to weed out the thieves. They will steal anything made from certain metals and the recyclers will happily buy anything including a pickup truck full of brand new air conditioning units.

crispyporkbites 7y ago
I don’t think this is a good idea. Criminals aren’t deterred by the punishment terms, and upgrading minor thefts to serious crime levels is contributing to the mass incarceration problem across the US. Building a society without incentives to steal and focusing on reform and rehabilitation is what we should be aiming for .
- taxicabjesus 7y ago
  > Criminals aren’t deterred by the punishment terms, and upgrading minor thefts to serious crime levels is contributing to the mass incarceration problem across the US. I think the problem with mass incarceration is more one of mental illness and punishing the associated problems [0] than punishing intelligent-but-lazy people who’d rather wreck people’s rides by stealing catalytic converters than apply themselves productively. [0] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/numbers-mental-illness-behind-bars https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/numbers-mental-illness-b... Going after rings of catalytic converters thieves is appropriate, if you look for the smart people at the top (head gangster providing direction, etc). I agree with your last paragraph. Several of my passengers were not well served by their punitive punishments - they had more problems (PTSD, etc) after prison than before.
inferiorhuman 7y ago
Doesn't help that prop 47 in California makes thefts under $1,000 a misdemeanor, so if you get caught stealing them you just get a slap on the wrist. Oh please. This old chestnut? If the police won't enforce misdemeanors that's on them, not Prop 47. Misdemeanors can see sentences of up to just under a year which should provide you plenty of time to punish a thief. Do we really need life sentences for stealing catalytic converters? Meanwhile NAPA lists one cat for a 2013 Prius at about $1000 and the other one at about $500. And those are the cheapie ones that aren't legal to install in California/NY. A pair of legit cats that're CARB certified (likely only available through Toyota proper) is going to be even further into felony territory. To be clear, you may be able to get a legit set installed for less than $1,000 (and you could have your friend's uncle install a used one on the sly for cheap I'm sure), but I wouldn't consider that typical and I doubt the court would bat an eye at charging your typical catcon theft as a felony. IOW Prop. 47 is not behind the uptick in crime.
- fortran77 7y ago
  This is not an "old chestnut" it's true. Ever since prop 47, certain crimes like shoplifting and porch piracy have increased by 10x (an order of magnitude). You will not spend any time in jail for these crimes
  - elliekelly 7y ago
    Could it be that prop 47 passed right around the time IoT became mainstream & DIY surveillance systems became affordable? Perhaps those crimes are just reported more frequently now because people are likely to have solid evidence to provide police. I never would have reported a stolen package to police before I had a camera system.
    - DrScump 7y ago
      & DIY surveillance systems became affordable? You're claiming that the presence of cheap surveillance systems increase the occurrence of theft? City governments in SV don't seek to have property crime prosecuted here because they view it as economic stimulus.
      - elliekelly 7y ago
        > You're claiming that the presence of cheap surveillance systems increase the occurrence of theft? No, that’s not at all what I’m saying. I’m suggesting cheap surveillance systems might increase the reporting of theft to law enforcement. Increased reports of a crime does not necessarily mean that crime has is being perpetrated more frequently.
  - bilbo0s 7y ago
    In fairness to the people of California, they got hosed by a lot of "tough on crime" laws in the past. When they made these 3 strikes laws and then you had murderers and rapists being released to make room for non violent felony offenders convicted after 3 strikes. So I imagine people in California are a whole lot more careful with rhetoric like that these days. No, they probably aren't gonna let you make what are obviously less serious crimes into crimes that have equivalent terms to inmates convicted of, say, 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. (The way these tough on crime laws tend to work, sometimes the nonviolent criminals get longer terms than the violent criminals.) If you want support in getting tough on crime, than get tough on the high end, life ending type crimes. Don't try to convince people to fill their prisons with bicycle and muffler thieves. Prisons are expensive, there should be a good cost benefit ratio for every inmate you incarcerate. If you absolutely believe you have to do something tough to muffler thieves, then hey, they seem extremely good candidates for ankle bracelets. (Which you can do right now charging them with misdemeanors. No need to change any laws.) But years in prison at 30 Grand a pop, (probably more in some states), should be completely out of the question. It's not worth that much.
jhayward 7y ago
Since it is usually way, way more than $1,000 to replace a catalytic converter I think your point is completely off-topic.

crispyporkbites 7y ago

I don’t think this is a good idea. Criminals aren’t deterred by the punishment terms, and upgrading minor thefts to serious crime levels is contributing to the mass incarceration problem across the US. Building a society without incentives to steal and focusing on reform and rehabilitation is what we should be aiming for .

taxicabjesus 7y ago
> Criminals aren’t deterred by the punishment terms, and upgrading minor thefts to serious crime levels is contributing to the mass incarceration problem across the US. I think the problem with mass incarceration is more one of mental illness and punishing the associated problems [0] than punishing intelligent-but-lazy people who’d rather wreck people’s rides by stealing catalytic converters than apply themselves productively. [0] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/numbers-mental-illness-behind-bars https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/numbers-mental-illness-b... Going after rings of catalytic converters thieves is appropriate, if you look for the smart people at the top (head gangster providing direction, etc). I agree with your last paragraph. Several of my passengers were not well served by their punitive punishments - they had more problems (PTSD, etc) after prison than before.

inferiorhuman 7y ago

Doesn't help that prop 47 in California makes thefts under $1,000 a misdemeanor, so if you get caught stealing them you just get a slap on the wrist. Oh please. This old chestnut? If the police won't enforce misdemeanors that's on them, not Prop 47. Misdemeanors can see sentences of up to just under a year which should provide you plenty of time to punish a thief. Do we really need life sentences for stealing catalytic converters? Meanwhile NAPA lists one cat for a 2013 Prius at about $1000 and the other one at about $500. And those are the cheapie ones that aren't legal to install in California/NY. A pair of legit cats that're CARB certified (likely only available through Toyota proper) is going to be even further into felony territory. To be clear, you may be able to get a legit set installed for less than $1,000 (and you could have your friend's uncle install a used one on the sly for cheap I'm sure), but I wouldn't consider that typical and I doubt the court would bat an eye at charging your typical catcon theft as a felony. IOW Prop. 47 is not behind the uptick in crime.

fortran77 7y ago
This is not an "old chestnut" it's true. Ever since prop 47, certain crimes like shoplifting and porch piracy have increased by 10x (an order of magnitude). You will not spend any time in jail for these crimes
- elliekelly 7y ago
  Could it be that prop 47 passed right around the time IoT became mainstream & DIY surveillance systems became affordable? Perhaps those crimes are just reported more frequently now because people are likely to have solid evidence to provide police. I never would have reported a stolen package to police before I had a camera system.
  - DrScump 7y ago
    & DIY surveillance systems became affordable? You're claiming that the presence of cheap surveillance systems increase the occurrence of theft? City governments in SV don't seek to have property crime prosecuted here because they view it as economic stimulus.
    - elliekelly 7y ago
      > You're claiming that the presence of cheap surveillance systems increase the occurrence of theft? No, that’s not at all what I’m saying. I’m suggesting cheap surveillance systems might increase the reporting of theft to law enforcement. Increased reports of a crime does not necessarily mean that crime has is being perpetrated more frequently.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  In fairness to the people of California, they got hosed by a lot of "tough on crime" laws in the past. When they made these 3 strikes laws and then you had murderers and rapists being released to make room for non violent felony offenders convicted after 3 strikes. So I imagine people in California are a whole lot more careful with rhetoric like that these days. No, they probably aren't gonna let you make what are obviously less serious crimes into crimes that have equivalent terms to inmates convicted of, say, 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. (The way these tough on crime laws tend to work, sometimes the nonviolent criminals get longer terms than the violent criminals.) If you want support in getting tough on crime, than get tough on the high end, life ending type crimes. Don't try to convince people to fill their prisons with bicycle and muffler thieves. Prisons are expensive, there should be a good cost benefit ratio for every inmate you incarcerate. If you absolutely believe you have to do something tough to muffler thieves, then hey, they seem extremely good candidates for ankle bracelets. (Which you can do right now charging them with misdemeanors. No need to change any laws.) But years in prison at 30 Grand a pop, (probably more in some states), should be completely out of the question. It's not worth that much.

jhayward 7y ago

Since it is usually way, way more than $1,000 to replace a catalytic converter I think your point is completely off-topic.