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All those people who protest ... They protest against what ? In France, we have the "Gilets Jaunes", who also protest, there is also the young people who protes

All those people who protest ... They protest against what ? In France, we have the "Gilets Jaunes", who also protest, there is also the young people who protest against climate change. They protest, and they go nowhere ...

xwolfi 7y ago
Honestly, right now, the "unfairness of life" is the closest to a coherent message I can interpret from their "movement". It was really a tense and passionate debate 2 months ago, but now many of us just roll our eyes at the latest news, like when they shave people who clean the streets, burn an MTR station, cry in a foreign country they need to be "freed", and the like...
- trevyn 7y ago
  Is the message closer to “we reject the terms of the social contract that we’re being offered”?
- barkxyz 7y ago
  Seems a little bit unfair not to mention the five demands in this context: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/what-do-the-hong-kong-protesters-want https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/what-do-the-ho... If you really want to "interpret" the message of their movement, that would seem like a good place to start.
- 77546throw 7y ago
  I’m actually surprised by how professional the police are acting. The protesters are throwing Molotovs and yet no one has been killed. After 2 months of riots, the police have been very reserved in there actions compared to other SWAT happy countries.
milquetoastaf 7y ago
You can literally google "hong kong protest demands" https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/asia/hong-kong-airport-protest-explained-hnk-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/asia/hong-kong-airport-protes... >As the protest movement is leaderless, not everyone has the same goals in mind. But in general, five main demands have emerged: withdraw the bill, for leader Carrie Lam to step down, an inquiry into police brutality, for those who have been arrested to be released, and greater democratic freedoms.
charles_f 7y ago
So instead, they should just sit there nicely and be swallowed into the largest communist police state in the world, a country notoriously[0] less free than the current government[1]? > They protest against what I'm guessing it's pretty clear, HK is against being reincorporated into mainland. Gilet jaune seems to be against the direction of law making in current French government (namely, tax the rich less and the poor more). The "young people" for more actions against pollution. > They protest, and they go nowhere ... What do you suggest they do instead, if they are not fine with that? You're protesting against them on an online forum, this is so much better. Protests have an actual effect on policy making[3], if only to rally people and express the vox populi, especially when said people doesn't have another to express itself than casting a general paper that gives a name, not an intent, into a box, with very long periodicity ; or don't have that luxury (e.g. Hong Kong in that case) [0] https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/china https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/china [1] https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/hong-kong https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/hong-kong [2] https://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/dshoag/Documents/Political%20Protests%20--%20Evidence%20from%20the%20Tea%20Party.pdf https://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/dshoag/Documents/Political%20... /edit: fixing a url/
isaaafc 7y ago
The whole movement started with the proposal of an extradition bill by the government which allows anyone in Hong Kong deemed guilty by the Chinese government (note: HK is not China yet) to be extradited to China for trial, even foreigners. Needless to say, people protested because the Chinese judicial system is a total joke (if you don't agree with this, I'm not going to argue with you, but the whole comment would be meaningless). People protested peacefully at first, but the government didn't give in and sent the police and triads to beat up citizens instead. Many things happened since then, mainly involving police brutality, misconduct, and collusion with triads and the Communist regime (like allegedly deploying Chinese police and the People's Liberation Army disguised as HK police). Therefore, now it has become a protest for 5 demands, namely: 1. Complete withdrawal of the said bill (now it has been "promised" by the Chief Executive Carrie Lam, but given the track record of her people will only believe it when they see it) 2. Revoke the riot definition of the protests 3. Release and cancel all the charges on people arrested for this movement 4. An independent commission to investigate police brutality and misconduct 5. True universal suffrage on both the CE and the legislative council
- tomkwong 7y ago
  > an extradition bill by the government which allows anyone in Hong Kong deemed guilty by the Chinese government (note: HK is not China yet) to be extradited to China for trial, even foreigners. AFAIK, China is just one of the countries that was included in the bill. Hong Kong has become "fugitives' paradise" because it is unable to legally send criminals to the original country for trial. > Chinese judicial system is a total joke Don't disagree with you :-) > the government didn't give in and sent the police and triads to beat up citizens instead Fake news here. The government sent police to control riots. The people that got beaten up were criminals. Some media called them protesters. Bloomberg called them demonstrators. The ones in the front are criminals. They wear masks for the same reason that bank robbers wear masks. It is illegal to carry guns in Hong Kong so an umbrella is not a bad weapon. When these criminals charged forward, the police had no option but to control the situation using force. > police brutality, misconduct, and collusion with triads and the Communist regime Just compare to any Western country. If the same kind of violence were to happen in the US, someone would have been killed by the police. I'm not sure about collusion with triad. As for collusion with the communist party, we have to remember that Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Region of China. The Hong Kong government must work with China for any activity that may deem to be anti-government or challenge One-Country-Two-Systems. Collusion is the wrong choice of word here. As for the 5 demands: 1. The extradition bill has been officially withdrawn. 2. This is impossible -- maybe it was possible in June but it's too late now given the violence. 3. This is impossible. It is also unreasonable because it would be a total dis-justice without going through the formal legal system. 4. There is already a system that citizen can make complaints against specific police behavior. It is also the wrong time to start any independent commission because the events are still unrolling. 5. It will take a long time to discuss again what made the "umbrella revolution" few years ago. The government seems open for discussions but if these so-called pro-democratic people cannot give in and resort to violent behavior then a "deal" can never been reached. These recent events proved that some people in Hong Kong are indeed anti-government and their sole purpose is to tear down the One-Country-Two-Systems concept and make Hong Kong an independent country. By bad-mouthing the government and police, they are painting a picture that there is no other way but to separate itself from China. It includes certain media that is known to be biased -- Apple Daily News, The Stand News, and sometimes Radio Television Hong Kong (ironically, a government sponsored entity). They produce fake news by taking events out of context and fool everyone. IMO, these media and certain reporters are very unprofessional. My 2 cents.

xwolfi 7y ago

Honestly, right now, the "unfairness of life" is the closest to a coherent message I can interpret from their "movement". It was really a tense and passionate debate 2 months ago, but now many of us just roll our eyes at the latest news, like when they shave people who clean the streets, burn an MTR station, cry in a foreign country they need to be "freed", and the like...

trevyn 7y ago
Is the message closer to “we reject the terms of the social contract that we’re being offered”?
barkxyz 7y ago
Seems a little bit unfair not to mention the five demands in this context: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/what-do-the-hong-kong-protesters-want https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/what-do-the-ho... If you really want to "interpret" the message of their movement, that would seem like a good place to start.
77546throw 7y ago
I’m actually surprised by how professional the police are acting. The protesters are throwing Molotovs and yet no one has been killed. After 2 months of riots, the police have been very reserved in there actions compared to other SWAT happy countries.

milquetoastaf 7y ago

You can literally google "hong kong protest demands" https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/asia/hong-kong-airport-protest-explained-hnk-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/asia/hong-kong-airport-protes... >As the protest movement is leaderless, not everyone has the same goals in mind. But in general, five main demands have emerged: withdraw the bill, for leader Carrie Lam to step down, an inquiry into police brutality, for those who have been arrested to be released, and greater democratic freedoms.

charles_f 7y ago

So instead, they should just sit there nicely and be swallowed into the largest communist police state in the world, a country notoriously[0] less free than the current government[1]? > They protest against what I'm guessing it's pretty clear, HK is against being reincorporated into mainland. Gilet jaune seems to be against the direction of law making in current French government (namely, tax the rich less and the poor more). The "young people" for more actions against pollution. > They protest, and they go nowhere ... What do you suggest they do instead, if they are not fine with that? You're protesting against them on an online forum, this is so much better. Protests have an actual effect on policy making[3], if only to rally people and express the vox populi, especially when said people doesn't have another to express itself than casting a general paper that gives a name, not an intent, into a box, with very long periodicity ; or don't have that luxury (e.g. Hong Kong in that case) [0] https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/china https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/china [1] https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/hong-kong https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/hong-kong [2] https://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/dshoag/Documents/Political%20Protests%20--%20Evidence%20from%20the%20Tea%20Party.pdf https://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/dshoag/Documents/Political%20... /edit: fixing a url/

isaaafc 7y ago

The whole movement started with the proposal of an extradition bill by the government which allows anyone in Hong Kong deemed guilty by the Chinese government (note: HK is not China yet) to be extradited to China for trial, even foreigners. Needless to say, people protested because the Chinese judicial system is a total joke (if you don't agree with this, I'm not going to argue with you, but the whole comment would be meaningless). People protested peacefully at first, but the government didn't give in and sent the police and triads to beat up citizens instead. Many things happened since then, mainly involving police brutality, misconduct, and collusion with triads and the Communist regime (like allegedly deploying Chinese police and the People's Liberation Army disguised as HK police). Therefore, now it has become a protest for 5 demands, namely: 1. Complete withdrawal of the said bill (now it has been "promised" by the Chief Executive Carrie Lam, but given the track record of her people will only believe it when they see it) 2. Revoke the riot definition of the protests 3. Release and cancel all the charges on people arrested for this movement 4. An independent commission to investigate police brutality and misconduct 5. True universal suffrage on both the CE and the legislative council

tomkwong 7y ago
> an extradition bill by the government which allows anyone in Hong Kong deemed guilty by the Chinese government (note: HK is not China yet) to be extradited to China for trial, even foreigners. AFAIK, China is just one of the countries that was included in the bill. Hong Kong has become "fugitives' paradise" because it is unable to legally send criminals to the original country for trial. > Chinese judicial system is a total joke Don't disagree with you :-) > the government didn't give in and sent the police and triads to beat up citizens instead Fake news here. The government sent police to control riots. The people that got beaten up were criminals. Some media called them protesters. Bloomberg called them demonstrators. The ones in the front are criminals. They wear masks for the same reason that bank robbers wear masks. It is illegal to carry guns in Hong Kong so an umbrella is not a bad weapon. When these criminals charged forward, the police had no option but to control the situation using force. > police brutality, misconduct, and collusion with triads and the Communist regime Just compare to any Western country. If the same kind of violence were to happen in the US, someone would have been killed by the police. I'm not sure about collusion with triad. As for collusion with the communist party, we have to remember that Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Region of China. The Hong Kong government must work with China for any activity that may deem to be anti-government or challenge One-Country-Two-Systems. Collusion is the wrong choice of word here. As for the 5 demands: 1. The extradition bill has been officially withdrawn. 2. This is impossible -- maybe it was possible in June but it's too late now given the violence. 3. This is impossible. It is also unreasonable because it would be a total dis-justice without going through the formal legal system. 4. There is already a system that citizen can make complaints against specific police behavior. It is also the wrong time to start any independent commission because the events are still unrolling. 5. It will take a long time to discuss again what made the "umbrella revolution" few years ago. The government seems open for discussions but if these so-called pro-democratic people cannot give in and resort to violent behavior then a "deal" can never been reached. These recent events proved that some people in Hong Kong are indeed anti-government and their sole purpose is to tear down the One-Country-Two-Systems concept and make Hong Kong an independent country. By bad-mouthing the government and police, they are painting a picture that there is no other way but to separate itself from China. It includes certain media that is known to be biased -- Apple Daily News, The Stand News, and sometimes Radio Television Hong Kong (ironically, a government sponsored entity). They produce fake news by taking events out of context and fool everyone. IMO, these media and certain reporters are very unprofessional. My 2 cents.