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I’m not sure about how to think about the file system API. On one hand, is great to see that secure file system access is possible in-browser, which allows most

I’m not sure about how to think about the file system API. On one hand, is great to see that secure file system access is possible in-browser, which allows most electron apps be converted into PWAs. That’s great, I no longer need to run 5 different chromium instances. On the other hand, I’m really not sure if I like the future of editing Microsoft office documents in the browser. I heavily believe that apps should have an integrated UX (with appropriate OS-specific widgets), because it allows coherency and familiarity.

notatoad 7y ago
The "coherence and familiarity" argument for native apps is only half the story though. Cross-platform coherence and familiarity is also important. And as an app developer, when you have to make a decision regarding whether you should be familiar and coherent to the rest of the operating system or the other installs of your app, that's pretty much always going to land on the "my app" side. Especially with Microsoft office, which was completely chock full of custom controls and didn't feel at all like part of the OS last time I used a natively installed version (on windows 7)
- pcr910303 7y ago
  > The "coherence and familiarity" argument for native apps is only half the story though. The user only uses the application in the platforms that one uses; so cross-platform coherence is mostly meaningless. > And as an app developer, when you have to make a decision regarding whether you should be familiar and coherent to the rest of the operating system or the other installs of your app, that's pretty much always going to land on the "my app" side. They might be beneficial to the developer; but it definitely isn’t to the user, which ultimately uses the app. One might argue that the user will use the app for multiple platforms; However the user will ‘know’ the average user experience for both platforms, hence having no problems adapting two different interfaces if the interface is well designed to match each platform. > Especially with Microsoft office, which was completely chock full of custom controls and didn't feel at all like part of the OS last time I used a natively installed version (on windows 7) I’m pretty sure Microsoft has opened the ribbon controls for this exact argument. At the very least, the Windows 7 file explorer’s toolbar looks very similar to the Office 2007; so Microsoft is trying to make the operating system more coherent. The introduction of the Notification Center in Windows 10 has a similar purpose; to make lots of different notification system in Windows coherent. If you want to look what an operating system looks like when the entire ecosystem considers coherence importantly: try using macOS. macOS users take this very seriously to the point that almost every app (that is not election) uses the default cocoa toolkit. Microsoft office isn’t an exception; they implemented the custom ribbon menu, but other than that it’s mostly plain Cocoa and it doesn’t standout as much as in other platforms.
  - laughinghan 7y ago
    The user only uses the application in the platforms that one uses Most people only use one desktop and one mobile OS, but it's extremely common to use the same app on both desktop and mobile. If your Mac and Windows apps both have to be consistent with your iOS app, they end up having to be consistent with each other.
    - pcr910303 7y ago
      I can confidently say that people doesn’t expect the same UI between mobile & desktop apps. If the Mac version and Windows version of the app can be consistent with the mobile version(which will have different interfaces), why can’t they be consistent with each other(between the two desktop apps) while having different interfaces?
      - laughinghan 7y ago
        No one has suggested that people "expect the same UI between mobile & desktop apps". The point under discussion is that it's desirable for apps to have "coherence and familiarity" across platforms. It's important that there be coherence and familiarity between Slack and Spotify's mobile, desktop, and web apps, for example, because most of their customers will use at least 2 of the 3 in any given week, which likely contributed to their choice to use Electron for their desktop apps.
- toastal 7y ago
  I've gotten into similar arguments about button order and whether or not the primary action one should be first or last which is inconsistent between operating systems. Everyone's opinion matches their OS.
The_rationalist 7y ago
That’s great, I no longer need to run 5 different chromium instances That's already possible with Carlo, and electron has a prototype for fixing this limitation.
jasonvorhe 7y ago
I don't get the argument here. Hasn't Google Docs proven that this works so much that even Microsoft is now copying it?

notatoad 7y ago

The "coherence and familiarity" argument for native apps is only half the story though. Cross-platform coherence and familiarity is also important. And as an app developer, when you have to make a decision regarding whether you should be familiar and coherent to the rest of the operating system or the other installs of your app, that's pretty much always going to land on the "my app" side. Especially with Microsoft office, which was completely chock full of custom controls and didn't feel at all like part of the OS last time I used a natively installed version (on windows 7)

pcr910303 7y ago
> The "coherence and familiarity" argument for native apps is only half the story though. The user only uses the application in the platforms that one uses; so cross-platform coherence is mostly meaningless. > And as an app developer, when you have to make a decision regarding whether you should be familiar and coherent to the rest of the operating system or the other installs of your app, that's pretty much always going to land on the "my app" side. They might be beneficial to the developer; but it definitely isn’t to the user, which ultimately uses the app. One might argue that the user will use the app for multiple platforms; However the user will ‘know’ the average user experience for both platforms, hence having no problems adapting two different interfaces if the interface is well designed to match each platform. > Especially with Microsoft office, which was completely chock full of custom controls and didn't feel at all like part of the OS last time I used a natively installed version (on windows 7) I’m pretty sure Microsoft has opened the ribbon controls for this exact argument. At the very least, the Windows 7 file explorer’s toolbar looks very similar to the Office 2007; so Microsoft is trying to make the operating system more coherent. The introduction of the Notification Center in Windows 10 has a similar purpose; to make lots of different notification system in Windows coherent. If you want to look what an operating system looks like when the entire ecosystem considers coherence importantly: try using macOS. macOS users take this very seriously to the point that almost every app (that is not election) uses the default cocoa toolkit. Microsoft office isn’t an exception; they implemented the custom ribbon menu, but other than that it’s mostly plain Cocoa and it doesn’t standout as much as in other platforms.
- laughinghan 7y ago
  The user only uses the application in the platforms that one uses Most people only use one desktop and one mobile OS, but it's extremely common to use the same app on both desktop and mobile. If your Mac and Windows apps both have to be consistent with your iOS app, they end up having to be consistent with each other.
  - pcr910303 7y ago
    I can confidently say that people doesn’t expect the same UI between mobile & desktop apps. If the Mac version and Windows version of the app can be consistent with the mobile version(which will have different interfaces), why can’t they be consistent with each other(between the two desktop apps) while having different interfaces?
    - laughinghan 7y ago
      No one has suggested that people "expect the same UI between mobile & desktop apps". The point under discussion is that it's desirable for apps to have "coherence and familiarity" across platforms. It's important that there be coherence and familiarity between Slack and Spotify's mobile, desktop, and web apps, for example, because most of their customers will use at least 2 of the 3 in any given week, which likely contributed to their choice to use Electron for their desktop apps.
toastal 7y ago
I've gotten into similar arguments about button order and whether or not the primary action one should be first or last which is inconsistent between operating systems. Everyone's opinion matches their OS.

The_rationalist 7y ago

That’s great, I no longer need to run 5 different chromium instances That's already possible with Carlo, and electron has a prototype for fixing this limitation.

jasonvorhe 7y ago

I don't get the argument here. Hasn't Google Docs proven that this works so much that even Microsoft is now copying it?