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I took the liberty of invoking Godwin's Law and re-purposed this template, it should make you consider how weak this statement really is. """ While I understan

I took the liberty of invoking Godwin's Law and re-purposed this template, it should make you consider how weak this statement really is. """ While I understand that many of you and many of our community members would prefer we had no business relationship with the Third Reich, I have made a principled decision, with the support of the IBM executive team, to work with the institutions of our government, regardless of whether or not we personally agree with their various policies. """

Porthos9K 7y ago
That was the first thing I thought of when I read Crist's statement, and it is the reason I have been so harsh in my condemnation.
shakezula 7y ago
I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head with this. This is the most accurate and succinct way to show how this looks.
- ng12 7y ago
  Godwin's Law is supposed to demonstrate the reductive nature of comparing everything to Nazism, it's supposed to be a logical fallacy.
  - shakezula 7y ago
    Except for we're not comparing "everything" to Nazism. We're comparing an organization running concentration camps to another organization that ran concentration camps.
    - ng12 7y ago
      The lazy mis-characterization of our border facilities as concentration camps is exactly what I'm talking about, while also being a wildly inappropriate comparison in a country with many Holocaust survivors.
      - alxp 7y ago
        "Our ancestors died because as Germany built towards genocide, companies like IBM powered & profited from their persecution https://twitter.com/NeverAgainActn/status/1169743707689668609 https://twitter.com/NeverAgainActn/status/116974370768966860...
      - shakezula 7y ago
        "wildly inappropriate" Okay dude. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/they-are-concentration-camps/2019/06/28/b70a72c4-9847-11e9-9a16-dc551ea5a43b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/they-are-concentrati...
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Mr. Godwin would like a word: https://web.archive.org/web/20170814022147/https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154965671861483&id=1 https://web.archive.org/web/20170814022147/https://m.faceboo... https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/...
    - ng12 7y ago
      I don't think you can retroactively change the meaning of a point you made decades earlier.
      - dredmorbius 7y ago
        Get back to me in a quarter century.
        ng12 7y ago
        Fair enough -- and if I claim that my statement doesn't actually apply to specific future circumstances in a way that supports my current personal beliefs feel free to ignore me.
- sdinsn 7y ago
  Except it's not. ICE is not the Third Reich, period.
  - shakezula 7y ago
    Except ICE is doing the same thing as the Third Reich - running concentration camps.
    - whenchamenia 7y ago
      This is delusional at best, but i suspect just blatantly dishonest.
      - shakezula 7y ago
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/they-are-concentration-camps/2019/06/28/b70a72c4-9847-11e9-9a16-dc551ea5a43b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/they-are-concentrati... Sure, I'm the dishonest one.
    - dazilcher 7y ago
      That's a ridiculous statement. Not just dishonest, but totally offensive to a certain ethnic group. Please consider your words next time.
      - shakezula 7y ago
        Right, that's why this group is totally fine with our treatment of detainees in these camps. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/never-again-means-close-camps-jews-protest-ice-across-country-n1029386 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/never-again-means-close...
commandlinefan 7y ago
> the Third Reich Not to get hyperbolic, but... you don't actually think that the U.S. government is equivalent to the Third Reich, do you?
- Porthos9K 7y ago
  We're a hell of a lot closer than we should be. The Japanese-American internment camps during WWII were bad enough, but this? This is worse because these refugees we're mistreating are fleeing the consequences of our dealings in Latin America. If these refugees are indeed a problem, they are a problem we brought upon ourselves, and we are making it worse.
  - ng12 7y ago
    Ok, but in this example the Japanese Americans are not Americans and they traveled thousands of miles to voluntarily join the internment camps.
    - dredmorbius 7y ago
      False on both counts.
      - ng12 7y ago
        I really don't see how, could you elaborate?
        dredmorbius 7y ago
        Many of the internees were in fact citizens. Internment was not voluntary. Succumbing to bad advice and popular opinion, President Roosevelt signed an executive order in February 1942 ordering the RELOCATION of all Americans of Japanese ancestry to CONCENTRATION CAMPS in the interior of the United States. http://www.ushistory.org/us/51e.asp http://www.ushistory.org/us/51e.asp From EO9066 itself: by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066 Also cited here, which adds: Nearly 70,000 of the evacuees were American citizens. The government made no charges against them, nor could they appeal their incarceration. All lost personal liberties; most lost homes and property as well. Although several Japanese Americans challenged the government’s actions in court cases, the Supreme Court upheld their legality. Nisei were nevertheless encouraged to serve in the armed forces, and some were also drafted. Altogether, more than 30,000 Japanese Americans served with distinction during World War II in segregated units. https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?doc=74 https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?doc=74

Porthos9K 7y ago

That was the first thing I thought of when I read Crist's statement, and it is the reason I have been so harsh in my condemnation.

shakezula 7y ago

I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head with this. This is the most accurate and succinct way to show how this looks.

ng12 7y ago
Godwin's Law is supposed to demonstrate the reductive nature of comparing everything to Nazism, it's supposed to be a logical fallacy.
- shakezula 7y ago
  Except for we're not comparing "everything" to Nazism. We're comparing an organization running concentration camps to another organization that ran concentration camps.
  - ng12 7y ago
    The lazy mis-characterization of our border facilities as concentration camps is exactly what I'm talking about, while also being a wildly inappropriate comparison in a country with many Holocaust survivors.
    - alxp 7y ago
      "Our ancestors died because as Germany built towards genocide, companies like IBM powered & profited from their persecution https://twitter.com/NeverAgainActn/status/1169743707689668609 https://twitter.com/NeverAgainActn/status/116974370768966860...
    - shakezula 7y ago
      "wildly inappropriate" Okay dude. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/they-are-concentration-camps/2019/06/28/b70a72c4-9847-11e9-9a16-dc551ea5a43b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/they-are-concentrati...
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Mr. Godwin would like a word: https://web.archive.org/web/20170814022147/https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154965671861483&id=1 https://web.archive.org/web/20170814022147/https://m.faceboo... https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/...
  - ng12 7y ago
    I don't think you can retroactively change the meaning of a point you made decades earlier.
    - dredmorbius 7y ago
      Get back to me in a quarter century.
      - ng12 7y ago
        Fair enough -- and if I claim that my statement doesn't actually apply to specific future circumstances in a way that supports my current personal beliefs feel free to ignore me.
sdinsn 7y ago
Except it's not. ICE is not the Third Reich, period.
- shakezula 7y ago
  Except ICE is doing the same thing as the Third Reich - running concentration camps.
  - whenchamenia 7y ago
    This is delusional at best, but i suspect just blatantly dishonest.
    - shakezula 7y ago
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/they-are-concentration-camps/2019/06/28/b70a72c4-9847-11e9-9a16-dc551ea5a43b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/they-are-concentrati... Sure, I'm the dishonest one.
  - dazilcher 7y ago
    That's a ridiculous statement. Not just dishonest, but totally offensive to a certain ethnic group. Please consider your words next time.
    - shakezula 7y ago
      Right, that's why this group is totally fine with our treatment of detainees in these camps. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/never-again-means-close-camps-jews-protest-ice-across-country-n1029386 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/never-again-means-close...

commandlinefan 7y ago

> the Third Reich Not to get hyperbolic, but... you don't actually think that the U.S. government is equivalent to the Third Reich, do you?

Porthos9K 7y ago
We're a hell of a lot closer than we should be. The Japanese-American internment camps during WWII were bad enough, but this? This is worse because these refugees we're mistreating are fleeing the consequences of our dealings in Latin America. If these refugees are indeed a problem, they are a problem we brought upon ourselves, and we are making it worse.
- ng12 7y ago
  Ok, but in this example the Japanese Americans are not Americans and they traveled thousands of miles to voluntarily join the internment camps.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    False on both counts.
    - ng12 7y ago
      I really don't see how, could you elaborate?
      - dredmorbius 7y ago
        Many of the internees were in fact citizens. Internment was not voluntary. Succumbing to bad advice and popular opinion, President Roosevelt signed an executive order in February 1942 ordering the RELOCATION of all Americans of Japanese ancestry to CONCENTRATION CAMPS in the interior of the United States. http://www.ushistory.org/us/51e.asp http://www.ushistory.org/us/51e.asp From EO9066 itself: by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066 Also cited here, which adds: Nearly 70,000 of the evacuees were American citizens. The government made no charges against them, nor could they appeal their incarceration. All lost personal liberties; most lost homes and property as well. Although several Japanese Americans challenged the government’s actions in court cases, the Supreme Court upheld their legality. Nisei were nevertheless encouraged to serve in the armed forces, and some were also drafted. Altogether, more than 30,000 Japanese Americans served with distinction during World War II in segregated units. https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?doc=74 https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?doc=74