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Should we expect contributors to projects used by China in their 'reeducation' camps to do similar things, or is this just an isolated demand for morality?

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happytoexplain 7y ago
Sure, it seems like an obviously analogous scenario to me. Did you have something in mind about how they might differ?
- DuskStar 7y ago
  Well, the Linux Foundation hasn't closed all their code repositories in retaliation, for one. And I'm pretty sure that China's reeducation camps use Linux. (In the cameras, for instance) Sure, closing those wouldn't actually hurt China's reeducation camps, but then the same is true for this developer's repo and ICE. (Since I doubt ICE uses bleeding edge Chef, Chef's temporary downtime would have had no effect)
mieseratte 7y ago
Well, if you're writing an FOSS project that happens to be picked up by the Chinese you're SOL. It's not as if the PRC has a history of giving a shit about your IP. If you're talking about writing bespoke software for them, that's a different matter than this particular situation.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > Well, if you're writing an FOSS project that happens to be picked up by the Chinese you're SOL. It's not as if the PRC has a history of giving a shit about your IP. Not to mention, if it's FOSS they can respect your IP and still use it - after all, you did give them (and everyone else) a license...
- jrochkind1 7y ago
  As far as I can tell, what happened here is Chef the company went beyond writing FOSS that happened to be picked up by ICE, they have some business relationship with ICE where they get paid. I'm not clear on the nature of it, from this article. Seth Vargo, was a former employee... and maybe also kept contributing FOSS after no longer being an employee? Unclear. It's not quite either of your situations, but more like the bespoke software I'd say. At any rate, if I wrote FOSS that happened to be used by ICE in a significant way, I'd feel really sad and confused and not sure what to think or what to do -- I'm not sure what the solution to this situation is, but I wouldn't feel good about it. If I worked for CEO Crist/Chef Inc. -- I'd quit. Cause that shit is disgusting. If I was Vargo, doing some combination of writing code for an employer on the job, and maybe also just contributing open source to the project after that, maybe cause it was a cool/interesting project/community he liked... but then discovering that Chef Inc. and Barry Crist were _using the code I wrote to make money by helping ICE with their information systems_.... I'd be fucking mad as hell. I'm not sure anything can be done about it legally in the long term, if the code was released open source. But I understand the anger and attempt to be as disruptive as possible. Cause Fuck That Shit.

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happytoexplain 7y ago

Sure, it seems like an obviously analogous scenario to me. Did you have something in mind about how they might differ?

DuskStar 7y ago
Well, the Linux Foundation hasn't closed all their code repositories in retaliation, for one. And I'm pretty sure that China's reeducation camps use Linux. (In the cameras, for instance) Sure, closing those wouldn't actually hurt China's reeducation camps, but then the same is true for this developer's repo and ICE. (Since I doubt ICE uses bleeding edge Chef, Chef's temporary downtime would have had no effect)

mieseratte 7y ago

Well, if you're writing an FOSS project that happens to be picked up by the Chinese you're SOL. It's not as if the PRC has a history of giving a shit about your IP. If you're talking about writing bespoke software for them, that's a different matter than this particular situation.

DuskStar 7y ago
> Well, if you're writing an FOSS project that happens to be picked up by the Chinese you're SOL. It's not as if the PRC has a history of giving a shit about your IP. Not to mention, if it's FOSS they can respect your IP and still use it - after all, you did give them (and everyone else) a license...
jrochkind1 7y ago
As far as I can tell, what happened here is Chef the company went beyond writing FOSS that happened to be picked up by ICE, they have some business relationship with ICE where they get paid. I'm not clear on the nature of it, from this article. Seth Vargo, was a former employee... and maybe also kept contributing FOSS after no longer being an employee? Unclear. It's not quite either of your situations, but more like the bespoke software I'd say. At any rate, if I wrote FOSS that happened to be used by ICE in a significant way, I'd feel really sad and confused and not sure what to think or what to do -- I'm not sure what the solution to this situation is, but I wouldn't feel good about it. If I worked for CEO Crist/Chef Inc. -- I'd quit. Cause that shit is disgusting. If I was Vargo, doing some combination of writing code for an employer on the job, and maybe also just contributing open source to the project after that, maybe cause it was a cool/interesting project/community he liked... but then discovering that Chef Inc. and Barry Crist were _using the code I wrote to make money by helping ICE with their information systems_.... I'd be fucking mad as hell. I'm not sure anything can be done about it legally in the long term, if the code was released open source. But I understand the anger and attempt to be as disruptive as possible. Cause Fuck That Shit.