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So further increasing tax burden on American citizens by allowing unlawful migration, when they already bring in 1 million plus lawfully and have been for the l

So further increasing tax burden on American citizens by allowing unlawful migration, when they already bring in 1 million plus lawfully and have been for the last decade, is morally just? Their illegal immigration problem is literally an order of magnitude larger. Think about that for a second: 10 times more unlawful migration occurs in their country. "It's immoral" is even more intellectually dishonest: you're just calling it bad.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
I think a significant issue with this is how ICE has been enforcing the law. It has been argued that human rights offenses have been happening on a large scale, as committed by ICE. That is to say: It's difficult to say that ICE is upholding the law by committing alleged crimes against humanity. Unfortunately, ICE also has large-scale immunity to being investigate for these alleged crimes, leaving the public with no other avenues to uncover the truth besides the court of public opinion- their morals.
- wolco 7y ago
  If they are enforcing harshly it might be difficult for them to find and remove people. Ideally they need to work with the community. The problem is the community and certain safe cities make their jobs more difficult because they don't agree with the policy. The smartest route would be to target businesses charging them additional taxes. Use that money to support the legal route by increasing limits and make that path more attractive.
gnarmis 7y ago
For one, this is not as one-sided and simple as "X is a tax burden". The Congressional Budget Office reported in 2007 that "the tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to them" but "in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."[1] Unauthorized immigrants create demand for goods and services[10] while an estimated 50 to 75 percent pay taxes.[9] Due to cheaper labor, they contribute to lower prices in the industries where they work, such as agriculture, restaurants, and construction.[2] [1] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-2008/reports/12-6-immigration.pdf https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-... [2] https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23550/the-economic-and-fiscal-consequences-of-immigration https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23550/the-economic-and-fiscal-co... Also, legal immigration just doesn't work well as a policy today. There's this perception that there's a line that people should just get in, but actually that process has been jammed up and there's active efforts to sabotage, with rhetorical tricks like claiming family immigration includes more than just immediate family (parents, spouse, children, only, not uncles and nieces etc), and silently walling off by extending processing times to multiple years, to the way quotas work -- same level regardless of size of country. But more to the point, talk about morality when noticing how some vilify refugees and asylum seekers, and don't learn from history, like with WW2 refusals of refugee jewish people from Europe, which led to the 1951 Refugee Convention. Want to practically and cheaply address illegal immigration? Maybe consider actually solving systemic issues like issues with legal immigation instead of throwing refugees and children in cages perhaps? Sorry but where there's asylum seekers caged and cases of sexual abuse and abuse of power and lack of oversight and cases of deaths, and when there's such a clear understanding of the real issues that could be improved that people just conveniently set aside, it's clear what the dictates of morality are in my mind.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago

I think a significant issue with this is how ICE has been enforcing the law. It has been argued that human rights offenses have been happening on a large scale, as committed by ICE. That is to say: It's difficult to say that ICE is upholding the law by committing alleged crimes against humanity. Unfortunately, ICE also has large-scale immunity to being investigate for these alleged crimes, leaving the public with no other avenues to uncover the truth besides the court of public opinion- their morals.

wolco 7y ago
If they are enforcing harshly it might be difficult for them to find and remove people. Ideally they need to work with the community. The problem is the community and certain safe cities make their jobs more difficult because they don't agree with the policy. The smartest route would be to target businesses charging them additional taxes. Use that money to support the legal route by increasing limits and make that path more attractive.

gnarmis 7y ago

For one, this is not as one-sided and simple as "X is a tax burden". The Congressional Budget Office reported in 2007 that "the tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to them" but "in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."[1] Unauthorized immigrants create demand for goods and services[10] while an estimated 50 to 75 percent pay taxes.[9] Due to cheaper labor, they contribute to lower prices in the industries where they work, such as agriculture, restaurants, and construction.[2] [1] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-2008/reports/12-6-immigration.pdf https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-... [2] https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23550/the-economic-and-fiscal-consequences-of-immigration https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23550/the-economic-and-fiscal-co... Also, legal immigration just doesn't work well as a policy today. There's this perception that there's a line that people should just get in, but actually that process has been jammed up and there's active efforts to sabotage, with rhetorical tricks like claiming family immigration includes more than just immediate family (parents, spouse, children, only, not uncles and nieces etc), and silently walling off by extending processing times to multiple years, to the way quotas work -- same level regardless of size of country. But more to the point, talk about morality when noticing how some vilify refugees and asylum seekers, and don't learn from history, like with WW2 refusals of refugee jewish people from Europe, which led to the 1951 Refugee Convention. Want to practically and cheaply address illegal immigration? Maybe consider actually solving systemic issues like issues with legal immigation instead of throwing refugees and children in cages perhaps? Sorry but where there's asylum seekers caged and cases of sexual abuse and abuse of power and lack of oversight and cases of deaths, and when there's such a clear understanding of the real issues that could be improved that people just conveniently set aside, it's clear what the dictates of morality are in my mind.