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> The central focus is a new 10-inch touchscreen that sits in the middle of the ID.3’s dashboard. But VW has also opted to rely on touch-sensitive buttons throu

> The central focus is a new 10-inch touchscreen that sits in the middle of the ID.3’s dashboard. But VW has also opted to rely on touch-sensitive buttons throughout the cabin. In fact, the only things that are controlled through physical buttons, VW says, are the windows and the hazard lights. I don't understand why big touch screens in cars are seen as a step forward. To me, they raise safety issues, and they lack the elegant and simple ergonomics of earlier cars. By definition, you have to look at a touch screen to use it. In older cars, you might have to glance at the speedometer, and you can do that without even moving your neck. The huge screen is the number 1 reason I would not buy a Tesla.

drcongo 7y ago
A thousand times this. I recently bought a Toyota Vellfire which has a touch screen ICE and I find that annoying enough on its own, I'd _hate_ to have to fiddle around on a screen to operate other car functionality.
- taf2 7y ago
  IMO the difference here is like comparing early versions of blackberry around 2008 that tried to compete with the iPhone. They were really bad too...
vitaflo 7y ago
You also can't use them with gloves on, and at least where I live, I'm always wearing gloves in the winter.
- enragedcacti 7y ago
  Some companies (at least some Hondas from personal experience) use electrostatic screens that fix that problem. Resistive also works but they are SOOO mushy and scratchable.
- taf2 7y ago
  You can buy touch screen friendly gloves... I always keep a pair in my car... nice thing about an electric car is you pre-heat without burning gas and being generally evil to the environment:)
  - Marsymars 7y ago
    Those don't work if it's especially cold. Even if cold-weather mitts had capacitive ability, they don't allow enough dexterity to do anything other than mash your hands all over a screen. I wear these mitts in the winter: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_CA/mens-gloves/mercury-mitts-BD801118_cfg.html https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_CA/mens-gloves/merc...
    - petre 7y ago
      You drive a car with boxing gloves on?
      - Marsymars 7y ago
        If you're calling the mitts I linked boxing gloves, then yes. They work just fine for turning the car on/off, steering, shifting, operating the stalk instruments and adjusting all the knob-based controls. I've got Raynaud syndrome (as do a number of my family members), and the alternative to wearing "boxing gloves" in the winter is very uncomfortable.
- burmanm 7y ago
  This. It feels insane that some manufacturers don't think about it, but I use gloves ~6 months a year when driving (even when my car has heated steering wheel). Operating a car with touch buttons is just stupid, I can't feel any "haptic" from those and some of them won't even register anything. Getting gloves off and looking at some screen while driving isn't safe.
GhostVII 7y ago
I think it is cost savings, to be honest. Probably a lot cheaper to throw a screen in a car and iterate on the design then spend the time to design a proper physical interface. With physical buttons it is very expensive to add a new button, with touch screens you just copy in some HTML.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Sure, because adding a touch button is free there's UI overload and lack of tactility. You have to switch multiple screens to do what you want. That's no good, it's only perhaps ok for things you should never do while driving.
jmpman 7y ago
I have a Model 3, and ever since I added Alexa Auto, I have no reason to use the touchscreen other than adding a destination to nav. Climate is set to auto. All other configurations automatically switch between my preferences and my wife’s based upon who is in the driver’s seat. I was a skeptic, but now I’m a believer.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  You like the touchscreen now that you don't have to use it? So in your case it wouldn't matter whether there is a touchscreen or not, because you admit to not using it. There's no reason a car can't have physical buttons and voice control
  - dzhiurgis 7y ago
    > There's no reason a car can't have physical buttons and voice control Cost and complexity - dials are way harder to do than a touchscreen.
    - AstralStorm 7y ago
      They're actually much easier, but the design has to be careful to make them useful. The touchscreen requires a (small, embedded) PC. The dials can even be done analog or with the cheapest of microcontrollers. The touchscreen trend is due to misguided minimalism which puts all the functionality in one piece of hardware.
  - jmpman 7y ago
    I was skeptical that I’d like the car. Overall, it’s well thought out. There is one physical button I still want and that’s for the windshield wipers. The car wash triggers them (maybe a GPS fence around car washes to disable?? One which is only enabled when the local weather says it isn’t currently raining) and the non-touch free car washes will damage them if they’re operating. So, I keep the wipers on manual. The joy of a Tesla is that my idea for “car wash geo fence to disable wipers when not raining” - could be in the next software version.
ex3ndr 7y ago
You should to look at hardware buttons as often as on software ones. Just try to turn heat on in latest MB.
- javagram 7y ago
  Large dials are the best. For instance the GE8 Honda fit has 3 huge dials, a lever, and 2 huge buttons that control the climate. It's extremely easy to adjust by touch without looking. https://imgur.com/a/V2yhIi6 https://imgur.com/a/V2yhIi6
  - Gibbon1 7y ago
    The looks a lot better than the utterly stupid climate control interface on my Prius.
  - SECProto 7y ago
    Yup, absolutely. I have a Yaris, which has a very similar simple 3 dial climate control system. I much prefer it over "temperature" based climate control like most new cars have - the temperature feeling in the cabin changes wildly depending on radiative heat flux (i.e. sunlight), and having a constant temperature air blowing out of the vents is not helpful. I would love for an electric car to have 3 dials for climate control, PLUS a moderate sized screen for navigation/music/etc
viburnum 7y ago
Gah the best thing about VWs is their boring and traditional interiors.
Mountain_Skies 7y ago
I was in an Uber last week with a large screen in the middle of the dash. For some reason it was a glossy screen so it was covered in fingerprints. Seemed like it would be prone to glare too. But when clean and in the right lighting, I bet it looks amazing.
m463 7y ago
At least vw offers a dashboard AND the option of a Heads Up display. The lack of a dashboard (in the line of sight) is the reason I did not buy a model 3. I actually like the large display in portrait mode in the model S. I do not like the UI though. You fiddle with controls to the side and down while driving. I cannot imagine the design came from people driving a moving vehicle. The giant horizontal display in the model 3 is difficult too. The near part of the screen is for speed and other status. So for controls you will be fiddling WAY off to the side. Maybe with competition all the cars will improve.
bearjaws 7y ago
The whole debate of screen vs buttons in cars reminds me of the early days of smart phones "surely being one large screen is worse, I like my buttons!". The whole point of Tesla's infotainment is to not be touching or changing anything while driving, its all configured based on who unlocked the car.
YZF 7y ago
You get used to it. I agree it's not perfect but the car as a whole is amazing. It's just a completely different experience. As the self driving features become better this becomes even less than an issue. At any rate, you don't buy the model 3 because of the screen, you buy it because it's a great car that happens to have it's UI on a screen. Great driving experience, no more gas stations, no more oil changes, don't kill the planet while you're driving...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
wmeredith 7y ago
The touch screens are there for the same reason that software is filled with user-hostile animations and contrast trade-offs: they look cool (aka they demo well) which leads to more sales.

drcongo 7y ago

A thousand times this. I recently bought a Toyota Vellfire which has a touch screen ICE and I find that annoying enough on its own, I'd _hate_ to have to fiddle around on a screen to operate other car functionality.

taf2 7y ago
IMO the difference here is like comparing early versions of blackberry around 2008 that tried to compete with the iPhone. They were really bad too...

vitaflo 7y ago

You also can't use them with gloves on, and at least where I live, I'm always wearing gloves in the winter.

enragedcacti 7y ago
Some companies (at least some Hondas from personal experience) use electrostatic screens that fix that problem. Resistive also works but they are SOOO mushy and scratchable.
taf2 7y ago
You can buy touch screen friendly gloves... I always keep a pair in my car... nice thing about an electric car is you pre-heat without burning gas and being generally evil to the environment:)
- Marsymars 7y ago
  Those don't work if it's especially cold. Even if cold-weather mitts had capacitive ability, they don't allow enough dexterity to do anything other than mash your hands all over a screen. I wear these mitts in the winter: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_CA/mens-gloves/mercury-mitts-BD801118_cfg.html https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_CA/mens-gloves/merc...
  - petre 7y ago
    You drive a car with boxing gloves on?
    - Marsymars 7y ago
      If you're calling the mitts I linked boxing gloves, then yes. They work just fine for turning the car on/off, steering, shifting, operating the stalk instruments and adjusting all the knob-based controls. I've got Raynaud syndrome (as do a number of my family members), and the alternative to wearing "boxing gloves" in the winter is very uncomfortable.
burmanm 7y ago
This. It feels insane that some manufacturers don't think about it, but I use gloves ~6 months a year when driving (even when my car has heated steering wheel). Operating a car with touch buttons is just stupid, I can't feel any "haptic" from those and some of them won't even register anything. Getting gloves off and looking at some screen while driving isn't safe.

GhostVII 7y ago

I think it is cost savings, to be honest. Probably a lot cheaper to throw a screen in a car and iterate on the design then spend the time to design a proper physical interface. With physical buttons it is very expensive to add a new button, with touch screens you just copy in some HTML.

AstralStorm 7y ago
Sure, because adding a touch button is free there's UI overload and lack of tactility. You have to switch multiple screens to do what you want. That's no good, it's only perhaps ok for things you should never do while driving.

jmpman 7y ago

I have a Model 3, and ever since I added Alexa Auto, I have no reason to use the touchscreen other than adding a destination to nav. Climate is set to auto. All other configurations automatically switch between my preferences and my wife’s based upon who is in the driver’s seat. I was a skeptic, but now I’m a believer.

TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
You like the touchscreen now that you don't have to use it? So in your case it wouldn't matter whether there is a touchscreen or not, because you admit to not using it. There's no reason a car can't have physical buttons and voice control
- dzhiurgis 7y ago
  > There's no reason a car can't have physical buttons and voice control Cost and complexity - dials are way harder to do than a touchscreen.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    They're actually much easier, but the design has to be careful to make them useful. The touchscreen requires a (small, embedded) PC. The dials can even be done analog or with the cheapest of microcontrollers. The touchscreen trend is due to misguided minimalism which puts all the functionality in one piece of hardware.
- jmpman 7y ago
  I was skeptical that I’d like the car. Overall, it’s well thought out. There is one physical button I still want and that’s for the windshield wipers. The car wash triggers them (maybe a GPS fence around car washes to disable?? One which is only enabled when the local weather says it isn’t currently raining) and the non-touch free car washes will damage them if they’re operating. So, I keep the wipers on manual. The joy of a Tesla is that my idea for “car wash geo fence to disable wipers when not raining” - could be in the next software version.

ex3ndr 7y ago

You should to look at hardware buttons as often as on software ones. Just try to turn heat on in latest MB.

javagram 7y ago
Large dials are the best. For instance the GE8 Honda fit has 3 huge dials, a lever, and 2 huge buttons that control the climate. It's extremely easy to adjust by touch without looking. https://imgur.com/a/V2yhIi6 https://imgur.com/a/V2yhIi6
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  The looks a lot better than the utterly stupid climate control interface on my Prius.
- SECProto 7y ago
  Yup, absolutely. I have a Yaris, which has a very similar simple 3 dial climate control system. I much prefer it over "temperature" based climate control like most new cars have - the temperature feeling in the cabin changes wildly depending on radiative heat flux (i.e. sunlight), and having a constant temperature air blowing out of the vents is not helpful. I would love for an electric car to have 3 dials for climate control, PLUS a moderate sized screen for navigation/music/etc

viburnum 7y ago

Gah the best thing about VWs is their boring and traditional interiors.

Mountain_Skies 7y ago

I was in an Uber last week with a large screen in the middle of the dash. For some reason it was a glossy screen so it was covered in fingerprints. Seemed like it would be prone to glare too. But when clean and in the right lighting, I bet it looks amazing.

m463 7y ago

At least vw offers a dashboard AND the option of a Heads Up display. The lack of a dashboard (in the line of sight) is the reason I did not buy a model 3. I actually like the large display in portrait mode in the model S. I do not like the UI though. You fiddle with controls to the side and down while driving. I cannot imagine the design came from people driving a moving vehicle. The giant horizontal display in the model 3 is difficult too. The near part of the screen is for speed and other status. So for controls you will be fiddling WAY off to the side. Maybe with competition all the cars will improve.

bearjaws 7y ago

The whole debate of screen vs buttons in cars reminds me of the early days of smart phones "surely being one large screen is worse, I like my buttons!". The whole point of Tesla's infotainment is to not be touching or changing anything while driving, its all configured based on who unlocked the car.

YZF 7y ago

You get used to it. I agree it's not perfect but the car as a whole is amazing. It's just a completely different experience. As the self driving features become better this becomes even less than an issue. At any rate, you don't buy the model 3 because of the screen, you buy it because it's a great car that happens to have it's UI on a screen. Great driving experience, no more gas stations, no more oil changes, don't kill the planet while you're driving...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

wmeredith 7y ago

The touch screens are there for the same reason that software is filled with user-hostile animations and contrast trade-offs: they look cool (aka they demo well) which leads to more sales.