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This is why I tend to try to keep a healthy skepticism about a great deal of the negative press on Amazon's warehouse working conditions, pushes to unionize, et

This is why I tend to try to keep a healthy skepticism about a great deal of the negative press on Amazon's warehouse working conditions, pushes to unionize, etc. So much of it lacks real context needed to actually inform, and just looks like click-bait or campaigns to drive negative sentiment, or to inhibit their ability to perform. And really, that should I guess be the default way one consume's news in general, no matter what its about. (Even the parent article!)

hrktb 7y ago
While skeptism is always healthy, a lot of the flack Amazon is getting seems pretty legit. Competitors might be piling in it and pushing it under the spotlight、even exaggerate parts of it, but of lot of Amazon’s operations is still provably shitty. For instance what part of the warehouse working condition do you think is completely fabricated ?
- prepend 7y ago
  The part where somehow that’s abnormal for warehouse workers. Warehouse work is hard and low paid. Working for Amazon is working for one of the best warehouse jobs but that doesn’t make it easy work. I’ve seen article about long days and injuries and such and they never bring up industry hours or wages or injury rates. So I suspect they are negative PR. So I don’t think they are fabricated, but they are misleading.
  - hrktb 7y ago
    They’re violating rules and it’s not without any consequences though [ex 0] It also looks to me the same as child labor in developing countries for instance. It might be par for the course but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be against it, or turn a blind eye on the big players participating in it, or ignore reports. Basically I don’t see how it’a misleading when it’s a reality thy is shared across an industry. Just as Apple gets press when factory workers suicide after bruning out, Amazon getting press for their warehouse is nothing unnatural. [0] https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/midwest/2017/11/09/470850.htm https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/midwest/2017/11/09/470...
  - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
    > Warehouse work is hard and low paid. Working for Amazon is working for one of the best warehouse jobs but that doesn’t make it easy work. I’ve seen article about long days and injuries and such and they never bring up industry hours or wages or injury rates. So I suspect they are negative PR. Yep, exactly. There's no basis from which you can judge on Amazon's (or anyone's) warehouse conditions, unless you have that context - what is typical? How is work life in other major warehouse operations? Maybe Amazon is an outlier... but for all we know, they might be an outlier in a positive way, compared to the competition. You can't know without context.
    - prepend 7y ago
      My limited understanding is that Amazon is the best when it comes to warehouse work-highest wages, healthcare, etc. I would love a good review of the warehouse industry. But I think it’s ultimately boring. The few articles I’ve read about Amazon are pretty useless and imagine they are a modern day The Jungle or something. But I don’t think warehouse work is meatpacking.
  - guerrilla 7y ago
    That it is not abnormal doesn't make it okay. Just because something is normal doesn't mean something should be normal. Further, people don't think it should be this way there and how it is elsewhere has no bearing on that fact. This is whataboutism.
    - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
      The point is, if you don't have the context, you are operating from a position of ignorance. What if conditions do suck and are terribly miserable at Amazon's warehouses? But... what if, despite that, the conditions are actually better than typical warehouse jobs? In that case, by singling out Amazon, you are actually punishing them for having better warehouse conditions than anyone, and helping their competitors where the workers are worse off.
      - guerrilla 7y ago
        No context is needed to want conditions to change: conditions at amazon aren't the way people want them to be, regardless of any context.
        prepend 7y ago
        Context is absolutely needed. How can I possibly want a particular condition at Amazon if I don’t understand it. For example, is $18 too low? Is 8-10 hour manual labor days bad? I can’t say I’m against the working conditions unless I know what typical working conditions are. And if Amazon is the best of all possible conditions for unskilled warehouse work then me calling for change at Amazon is way less effective than for some other place where my attention will have more impact. This idea of “any change is good” is dangerous because it ignores opportunity cost. An example is that it can actually be bad to raise awareness for a rare disease if it takes away donations from a common disease. It can cost lives and do harm because dollars become less effective. Focusing on the wrong thing can be worse than apathy and it seems really weird that people can form opinions without data and facts. Especially in a world where PR bullshit can form such emotional reactions.

hrktb 7y ago

While skeptism is always healthy, a lot of the flack Amazon is getting seems pretty legit. Competitors might be piling in it and pushing it under the spotlight、even exaggerate parts of it, but of lot of Amazon’s operations is still provably shitty. For instance what part of the warehouse working condition do you think is completely fabricated ?

prepend 7y ago
The part where somehow that’s abnormal for warehouse workers. Warehouse work is hard and low paid. Working for Amazon is working for one of the best warehouse jobs but that doesn’t make it easy work. I’ve seen article about long days and injuries and such and they never bring up industry hours or wages or injury rates. So I suspect they are negative PR. So I don’t think they are fabricated, but they are misleading.
- hrktb 7y ago
  They’re violating rules and it’s not without any consequences though [ex 0] It also looks to me the same as child labor in developing countries for instance. It might be par for the course but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be against it, or turn a blind eye on the big players participating in it, or ignore reports. Basically I don’t see how it’a misleading when it’s a reality thy is shared across an industry. Just as Apple gets press when factory workers suicide after bruning out, Amazon getting press for their warehouse is nothing unnatural. [0] https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/midwest/2017/11/09/470850.htm https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/midwest/2017/11/09/470...
- SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
  > Warehouse work is hard and low paid. Working for Amazon is working for one of the best warehouse jobs but that doesn’t make it easy work. I’ve seen article about long days and injuries and such and they never bring up industry hours or wages or injury rates. So I suspect they are negative PR. Yep, exactly. There's no basis from which you can judge on Amazon's (or anyone's) warehouse conditions, unless you have that context - what is typical? How is work life in other major warehouse operations? Maybe Amazon is an outlier... but for all we know, they might be an outlier in a positive way, compared to the competition. You can't know without context.
  - prepend 7y ago
    My limited understanding is that Amazon is the best when it comes to warehouse work-highest wages, healthcare, etc. I would love a good review of the warehouse industry. But I think it’s ultimately boring. The few articles I’ve read about Amazon are pretty useless and imagine they are a modern day The Jungle or something. But I don’t think warehouse work is meatpacking.
- guerrilla 7y ago
  That it is not abnormal doesn't make it okay. Just because something is normal doesn't mean something should be normal. Further, people don't think it should be this way there and how it is elsewhere has no bearing on that fact. This is whataboutism.
  - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
    The point is, if you don't have the context, you are operating from a position of ignorance. What if conditions do suck and are terribly miserable at Amazon's warehouses? But... what if, despite that, the conditions are actually better than typical warehouse jobs? In that case, by singling out Amazon, you are actually punishing them for having better warehouse conditions than anyone, and helping their competitors where the workers are worse off.
    - guerrilla 7y ago
      No context is needed to want conditions to change: conditions at amazon aren't the way people want them to be, regardless of any context.
      - prepend 7y ago
        Context is absolutely needed. How can I possibly want a particular condition at Amazon if I don’t understand it. For example, is $18 too low? Is 8-10 hour manual labor days bad? I can’t say I’m against the working conditions unless I know what typical working conditions are. And if Amazon is the best of all possible conditions for unskilled warehouse work then me calling for change at Amazon is way less effective than for some other place where my attention will have more impact. This idea of “any change is good” is dangerous because it ignores opportunity cost. An example is that it can actually be bad to raise awareness for a rare disease if it takes away donations from a common disease. It can cost lives and do harm because dollars become less effective. Focusing on the wrong thing can be worse than apathy and it seems really weird that people can form opinions without data and facts. Especially in a world where PR bullshit can form such emotional reactions.