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Great comment and kudos to you, but a couple thoughts on the following: “Eliminate things from your life that don’t bring you joy and happiness.” I see this s

Great comment and kudos to you, but a couple thoughts on the following: “Eliminate things from your life that don’t bring you joy and happiness.” I see this sentiment a lot in the techie self-help sphere, along with corrolaries like “ruthlessly eliminate negative people”. While I understand the motivation and agree it is true up to a point, it can also lead to a shallow and avoidant approach to life if you get carried away with it. Many of the most potentially rich and satisfying aspects of life are also the most dark, difficult, and complex when they go wrong. You shouldn’t always run away. The trick is to find a balance—sink some roots into the inherently chaotic and often ‘negative’ emotional substrate of life without letting yourself get pulled under. Offset the weight with lightness, but don’t try to avoid carrying any weight whatsoever.

awinder 7y ago
This is basically Bentham vs Mill utilitarianism for anyone that wants to explore how at least humanity’s great balancing act has been recorded over hundreds of years. But to summarize — you should optimize for things like quality of happiness rather than happiness units. And this gets messy and you will make bad calls, it’s a moral framework for decision making no one has a perfect system. But be optimizing for great happiness and make those long term investments.
whalesalad 7y ago
I think you might be interpreting my comment a little too far into "stick your head into the sand" territory. That is not at all what I am advocating. It's important to be realistic and a part of the world around you ... but it's very clear that people have too much shit in their lives and need to get rid of a lot of it.
kempbellt 7y ago
>it can also lead to a shallow and avoidant approach to life if you get carried away with it. There is nothing wrong with taking this approach, while you get yourself back on track. I've gone through this myself. Became an "asshole" in some peoples' eyes - "Why should I attend that social event? What am I going to get out of it? Nah, pass". They've gotten over it. So have I. Truly though, who gives a shit, if that is what you need. Like OP said, it's your life. Do what you need to do for you. If you keep investing in things that suck the life out of you endlessly, it's going to drag you to a dark place, which is no good for anyone. I trust selfish people more than I trust "selfless" people. Simply because selfish people are less likely to snap, and take out all of their repressed frustration at a seemingly random time. It's taken me a while, but now I have a more diplomatic approach to extending my personal energy to benefit those around me, or invest in projects, work, etc. You are right. It requires balance. However, you should not be afraid to tip the scales the other way for a while, so that you can refactor your priorities.
- qzx_pierri 7y ago
  hey I really needed to see this today. thanks.
- _cairn 7y ago
  Thanks for this.
taurath 7y ago
Joy and Happiness are fleeting emotions. If you felt them all the time for something, over just a little bit of time you would not.
- cortesoft 7y ago
  Yeah, I feel like joy and happiness are side effects of a meaningful life, not the cause.
jonfw 7y ago
> “Eliminate things from your life that don’t bring you joy and happiness.” The key here is to have a long-term view of this. Obviously this doesn't mean to disown your relationships with anybody who didn't bring you joy this week, but you should look at the history of the relationship, and how you think the relationship will be in the future, and decide whether or not the relationship is really a value add in your life.
- mistersquid 7y ago
  The idea of eliminating negativity is problematic because, sometimes, relationships that are the most challenging are also ones that end providing fulfillment and personal growth. Outcomes are often impossible to predict in advance because you just can't know which relationships will end up challenging you in ways that help you grow. Also, you and your circumstances will change and those changes will affect the nature and affect of your relationships. I'm not saying one should cannot or should not make decisions about who to keep close in one's personal life. I am saying, however, that predictions about the future value of any personal relationship is as likely to be mistaken as correct. I don't think relationships should be about maximizing one's potential, whatever "maximizing" may mean. Relationships are important and so is happiness, but I don't think relationships should be cultivated and curated in the service of maximum happiness.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
thrav 7y ago
I feel like this notion of tossing things that are unpleasant is pervasive in California, in a way that it wasn’t where I grew up, in Texas. As you say, there is a lot of value in sticking with shit that can be really irritating, and hard. In Texas, they go too far the other way, and tolerate things for longer than they sometimes should. Funny how that tendency maps so well to the foundations of their politics (progress / conservation). As usual, the right way is somewhere in the middle.
- jelliclesfarm 7y ago
  Interesting observation. I think it’s true. My take on it: Mostly occurs because California is filled with people who come from somewhere else. It is filled with restless people who are goal oriented and need results to be filled with joy. I think places with more rooted populations find their joy in people and not goals. They are not on the move. There is a certain personality that thinks..I am going to move cities, zip codes, countries, jobs ..in search of something better. Always something better than where I am now. They are never going to be happy with status quo for long..joy is always a moving target. That’s what makes them tick. That’s what makes them good at what they do. People are people. I think this is what is supposed to be true diversity. Diverse personalities. I find diversity based on skin colour or language or gender etc are such shallow classifications. Considering that, I don’t think we have diversity at all..because birds of a feather flock together.
  - Stronico 7y ago
    Utah Phillips phrased it as "People back East have a tremendous sense of place, here in the West, we have a tremendous sense of event."
andai 7y ago
Re: Ruthlessly eliminate negative people I'm undoubtedly the most negative person in my life.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- seppin 7y ago
  > I'm undoubtedly the most negative person in my life. This can change, it takes work.
- tunesmith 7y ago
  Easier to change yourself than change someone else!
- daxfohl 7y ago
  Well at least you have that going for you!
- bazooka_penguin 7y ago
  Famous last techie words
lemm 7y ago
I think the parent commenter made some great points about social media, but I was going to say something about that line as well. This seems to be a really common sentiment, and I could not disagree more. At worst, it comes across as severely narcissistic. At best, it's avoidance of reality.

awinder 7y ago

This is basically Bentham vs Mill utilitarianism for anyone that wants to explore how at least humanity’s great balancing act has been recorded over hundreds of years. But to summarize — you should optimize for things like quality of happiness rather than happiness units. And this gets messy and you will make bad calls, it’s a moral framework for decision making no one has a perfect system. But be optimizing for great happiness and make those long term investments.

whalesalad 7y ago

I think you might be interpreting my comment a little too far into "stick your head into the sand" territory. That is not at all what I am advocating. It's important to be realistic and a part of the world around you ... but it's very clear that people have too much shit in their lives and need to get rid of a lot of it.

kempbellt 7y ago

>it can also lead to a shallow and avoidant approach to life if you get carried away with it. There is nothing wrong with taking this approach, while you get yourself back on track. I've gone through this myself. Became an "asshole" in some peoples' eyes - "Why should I attend that social event? What am I going to get out of it? Nah, pass". They've gotten over it. So have I. Truly though, who gives a shit, if that is what you need. Like OP said, it's your life. Do what you need to do for you. If you keep investing in things that suck the life out of you endlessly, it's going to drag you to a dark place, which is no good for anyone. I trust selfish people more than I trust "selfless" people. Simply because selfish people are less likely to snap, and take out all of their repressed frustration at a seemingly random time. It's taken me a while, but now I have a more diplomatic approach to extending my personal energy to benefit those around me, or invest in projects, work, etc. You are right. It requires balance. However, you should not be afraid to tip the scales the other way for a while, so that you can refactor your priorities.

qzx_pierri 7y ago
hey I really needed to see this today. thanks.
_cairn 7y ago
Thanks for this.

taurath 7y ago

Joy and Happiness are fleeting emotions. If you felt them all the time for something, over just a little bit of time you would not.

cortesoft 7y ago
Yeah, I feel like joy and happiness are side effects of a meaningful life, not the cause.

jonfw 7y ago

> “Eliminate things from your life that don’t bring you joy and happiness.” The key here is to have a long-term view of this. Obviously this doesn't mean to disown your relationships with anybody who didn't bring you joy this week, but you should look at the history of the relationship, and how you think the relationship will be in the future, and decide whether or not the relationship is really a value add in your life.

mistersquid 7y ago
The idea of eliminating negativity is problematic because, sometimes, relationships that are the most challenging are also ones that end providing fulfillment and personal growth. Outcomes are often impossible to predict in advance because you just can't know which relationships will end up challenging you in ways that help you grow. Also, you and your circumstances will change and those changes will affect the nature and affect of your relationships. I'm not saying one should cannot or should not make decisions about who to keep close in one's personal life. I am saying, however, that predictions about the future value of any personal relationship is as likely to be mistaken as correct. I don't think relationships should be about maximizing one's potential, whatever "maximizing" may mean. Relationships are important and so is happiness, but I don't think relationships should be cultivated and curated in the service of maximum happiness.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

thrav 7y ago

I feel like this notion of tossing things that are unpleasant is pervasive in California, in a way that it wasn’t where I grew up, in Texas. As you say, there is a lot of value in sticking with shit that can be really irritating, and hard. In Texas, they go too far the other way, and tolerate things for longer than they sometimes should. Funny how that tendency maps so well to the foundations of their politics (progress / conservation). As usual, the right way is somewhere in the middle.

jelliclesfarm 7y ago
Interesting observation. I think it’s true. My take on it: Mostly occurs because California is filled with people who come from somewhere else. It is filled with restless people who are goal oriented and need results to be filled with joy. I think places with more rooted populations find their joy in people and not goals. They are not on the move. There is a certain personality that thinks..I am going to move cities, zip codes, countries, jobs ..in search of something better. Always something better than where I am now. They are never going to be happy with status quo for long..joy is always a moving target. That’s what makes them tick. That’s what makes them good at what they do. People are people. I think this is what is supposed to be true diversity. Diverse personalities. I find diversity based on skin colour or language or gender etc are such shallow classifications. Considering that, I don’t think we have diversity at all..because birds of a feather flock together.
- Stronico 7y ago
  Utah Phillips phrased it as "People back East have a tremendous sense of place, here in the West, we have a tremendous sense of event."

andai 7y ago

Re: Ruthlessly eliminate negative people I'm undoubtedly the most negative person in my life.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
seppin 7y ago
> I'm undoubtedly the most negative person in my life. This can change, it takes work.
tunesmith 7y ago
Easier to change yourself than change someone else!
daxfohl 7y ago
Well at least you have that going for you!
bazooka_penguin 7y ago
Famous last techie words

lemm 7y ago

I think the parent commenter made some great points about social media, but I was going to say something about that line as well. This seems to be a really common sentiment, and I could not disagree more. At worst, it comes across as severely narcissistic. At best, it's avoidance of reality.