3 ms·

And that’s for a 205mi range (that will be WLTP not EPA so real world will be ~15% lower) on a 45kWh battery back that can only charge at 50kW. Top speed is 99

by zaroth 7y ago

And that’s for a 205mi range (that will be WLTP not EPA so real world will be ~15% lower) on a 45kWh battery back that can only charge at 50kW. Top speed is 99mph, 0-60 is unannounced. The higher priced versions can charge up to 100kW. But frankly, the base model specs seem abysmal?

close04 7y ago
> 0-60 is unannounced Anybody looking for a mid-range Golf/ID.3 type car (excluding top models like GTI/R/etc.) cares very little about 0-100Km/h times. In the same vein they also didn't announce the Nürburgring lap times. Edit. Also based on the numbers Tesla publishes for the same car the difference between WLTP and EPA is less that 7%. Is it expected that in some cases it varies up to 15%?
- zaroth 7y ago
  254 vs 240mi for SR+ but 348 vs 310mi for the LR.
  - close04 7y ago
    Tesla M3 SR+ is advertised as 240mi (386Km) EPA in the US vs. 409Km WLTP in the EU, a 6% difference. The LR is 310mi (~500Km) EPA vs. 560Km WLTP, a 12% difference. Assuming the tests are designed in such a way that for some reason they start to diverge massively the longer the range (6% at 240mi but 12% at 310mi) then for an ID.3 with a 210mi range there is no reason at this point to assume 15% difference but rather under 10%. Given that you obviously know the numbers your extrapolation, while it may turn out to be true, seems more bad faith than reasonable assumption at this point.
    - zaroth 7y ago
      You can’t extrapolate like that. 15% is just a rule of thumb. I had to lookup the numbers to provide the reply, I didn’t know them off hand. Some shorter range cars (e.g. BMW i3) have larger drops (19%). I just found a spreadsheet on Reddit which shows the average for all cars OP could find is a drop of 11.5% https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BvlOf89ebiT0n16ma1V2pA01sZW2tkC4W5xPy-_YNyM/htmlview?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BvlOf89ebiT0n16ma1V2...
reitzensteinm 7y ago
The base model has a higher range per dollar than an SR+ by a comfortable margin. Abysmal seems like a strong word...? It might not be as fast or sexy as a Tesla, but cars like this will be the bread and butter of the EV transition. 30k EUR - 19% VAT = ~$27,750 USD, or $135 per WLTP mile. SR+ is $38,990 with a range of 254, or $153 per WLTP mile.
- zaroth 7y ago
  I think if you’re going to extrapolate a fictional ID.3 by backing out the VAT, the least you could do is compare against an SR- at $35,000 to get $137. Or alternatively the LR at 348mi WLTP range (+12.25%) for $47,990 = $138. Of course range per dollar is a funny metric because it’s like saying it’s the only thing you are paying for.
  - reitzensteinm 7y ago
    Removing the VAT is absolutely the right way to make the comparison. I didn't use EU prices for the Model 3 so as to not penalize it for tariffs and shipping. I honestly can't believe you're pushing back on that. The specs don't match up to a Model 3, but it's a much cheaper car. If they were the same price, I'd understand your distaste.

by zaroth 7y ago

close04 7y ago

> 0-60 is unannounced Anybody looking for a mid-range Golf/ID.3 type car (excluding top models like GTI/R/etc.) cares very little about 0-100Km/h times. In the same vein they also didn't announce the Nürburgring lap times. Edit. Also based on the numbers Tesla publishes for the same car the difference between WLTP and EPA is less that 7%. Is it expected that in some cases it varies up to 15%?

zaroth 7y ago
254 vs 240mi for SR+ but 348 vs 310mi for the LR.
- close04 7y ago
  Tesla M3 SR+ is advertised as 240mi (386Km) EPA in the US vs. 409Km WLTP in the EU, a 6% difference. The LR is 310mi (~500Km) EPA vs. 560Km WLTP, a 12% difference. Assuming the tests are designed in such a way that for some reason they start to diverge massively the longer the range (6% at 240mi but 12% at 310mi) then for an ID.3 with a 210mi range there is no reason at this point to assume 15% difference but rather under 10%. Given that you obviously know the numbers your extrapolation, while it may turn out to be true, seems more bad faith than reasonable assumption at this point.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    You can’t extrapolate like that. 15% is just a rule of thumb. I had to lookup the numbers to provide the reply, I didn’t know them off hand. Some shorter range cars (e.g. BMW i3) have larger drops (19%). I just found a spreadsheet on Reddit which shows the average for all cars OP could find is a drop of 11.5% https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BvlOf89ebiT0n16ma1V2pA01sZW2tkC4W5xPy-_YNyM/htmlview?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BvlOf89ebiT0n16ma1V2...

reitzensteinm 7y ago

The base model has a higher range per dollar than an SR+ by a comfortable margin. Abysmal seems like a strong word...? It might not be as fast or sexy as a Tesla, but cars like this will be the bread and butter of the EV transition. 30k EUR - 19% VAT = ~$27,750 USD, or $135 per WLTP mile. SR+ is $38,990 with a range of 254, or $153 per WLTP mile.

zaroth 7y ago
I think if you’re going to extrapolate a fictional ID.3 by backing out the VAT, the least you could do is compare against an SR- at $35,000 to get $137. Or alternatively the LR at 348mi WLTP range (+12.25%) for $47,990 = $138. Of course range per dollar is a funny metric because it’s like saying it’s the only thing you are paying for.
- reitzensteinm 7y ago
  Removing the VAT is absolutely the right way to make the comparison. I didn't use EU prices for the Model 3 so as to not penalize it for tariffs and shipping. I honestly can't believe you're pushing back on that. The specs don't match up to a Model 3, but it's a much cheaper car. If they were the same price, I'd understand your distaste.