6 ms·

"Public health recommendations promoting physical activity should incorporate advice to avoid periods of sedentary behaviour." How do we interpret and apply in

"Public health recommendations promoting physical activity should incorporate advice to avoid periods of sedentary behaviour." How do we interpret and apply information like this? Many people work in front a computer these days so it can't actually be applied to them (read us).

ska 7y ago
> Many people work in front a computer these days so it can't actually be applied to them. This sort of advice can be literally applied to anyone who doesn't have severely limiting physical limitations. Sure, working in front of a screen is a constraint you may have to work around - but the rest of your time you make a lot of choices about. Just a for instance, I had a colleague recently who lived in typical suburbia and worked as a programmer. He changed two things: First was that while he still drove in every day, he left 30 min earlier and parked about 20 min away from the office. So he walked about 45 min to and from his car every day regardless. Second thing was to get up and walk nearly every day during lunch, just a little 15 min loop or so. He visibly lost weight, and claimed to feel great (and that his commute wasn't actually much longer - better traffic)
chrisweekly 7y ago
Standing desks and frequent breaks are 100% compatible with virtually any computer -related job. Even in the context of "Deep Work" sessions (cf Cal Newport), it's a matter of making a point of periodically stretching your legs and giving your eyes a chance to focus on distant objects
hanniabu 7y ago
> How do we interpret and apply information like this? Sedentary desk jobs should be considered work hazards and employees should be given desks that can easily be changed to a standing desk and also be allotted a walking break every 15-30min, or install rows of treadmills with an ergonomic laptop holder.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  In Poland, such a break is codified in law for sedentary workers. (But it's shorter and you get to distribute it yourself.) The problem is finding space to walk in. Most offices are not designed for hiking.
justinator 7y ago
It's kind of like taking drugs, you know? The activity you do is somewhat slowly killing you, so be kinda/sorta OK with that. Being a little less flippant, my suggestion is to fight for livable cities where car ownership is one option out of many others, including walking and riding bicycles. If you get out of bed, then straight to your car, then drive to work, to then sit some more (x5 days each week), just to reverse it, it's going to be detrimental in the long run to your health - there's just no other way around it. If that seems unbelievable, think of the diseases of affluence we, as a culture, have: Type II diabetes, heart disease, etc. Our bodies were born to move, not to code all day to then vegetate all night.
phamjamstudio 7y ago
I use an under desk treadmill (iMovr ThermoTread GT) and average 2.5 mi per day. It's fairly quiet and most of my peers like it. There are also bike options if that's preferred
DoreenMichele 7y ago
You need to walk/exercise moderately at least 30 minutes a day. Though, granted, studies show that exercise doesn't fully offset the negative impact from sitting for hours at a time. When I had a corporate job, I got up every hour on the hour to go the bathroom. It was a huge building, so that got me more walking in than you might assume from the description.
coldtea 7y ago
>Many people work in front a computer these days so it can't actually be applied to them (read us). Unless those people are tied or in cages, it can be. First of all, you can take breaks and walks even around the office (e.g. once an hour). Second, there are standing desks, which are trivially accepted in most workplaces. Third, "avoid periods" doesn't have to be "avoid several hour stretches". It can just be "avoid day stretches", in other words, sitting for 8 hours and then going for a walk after (or before) work, is still ok.
jobigoud 7y ago
Anytime I have to think about an issue I need to step away from the screen. I work from home and usually unless I'm actively typing or looking at references I'm walking around thinking about stuff.
simonebrunozzi 7y ago
If you are reading this message, and you are in front of a computer (instead of, e.g., walking around and reading this on a mobile device), please stand up for ten seconds, take a deep breath, and sit down again.
graeme 7y ago
The study had people walk 10,000 fewer steps in a day. So, walking more would reverse it if the study was right. In practice it would mean taking periodic breaks to walk around a bit, and trying to arrange things such that you could walk some of your commute, or walk to the store, etc Obviously harder for people in suburbia.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  Does that follow though? They took 10,000 fewer steps away, yes, but was there actually any judgement in how those steps were gained/lost? I'm curious if the same effect as those 10,0000 steps could be found simply by going out for an hour walk and still sitting for the rest.
  - bigmit37 7y ago
    I was also disappointed in the lack of solution as well. We know more exercise is better, how how much would be needed if we have be on the computer 8 hrs a day etc. Couid 5-10 mins every hour of walking prevent these issues etc.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bonestamp2 7y ago
  > harder in suburbia True, takes some adjustments... When I drive somewhere, I try to park at the back of the parking lot for a bit of a walk (bonus: keeps your car dent free too). When I go check my mail, I walk to the end of the block first and get it on my way back (bonus: get to keep an eye on my neighborhood and say hi to some neighbors). When I drop my daughter at school we park a block away and walk in (bonus: get to spend more time with my daughter and meet some other parents). These changes all sound trivial, but from my fitness tracker I can attest that they make a quantifiable difference, especially when you look at it over a month. Additionally, those other little bonuses contribute to overall happiness.
  - graeme 7y ago
zebraflask 7y ago
I find excuses to take short breaks during the day where I can walk somewhere. If there's a choice between the stairs or an elevator - the stairs. Little things like that are low impact, but they add up.
caymanjim 7y ago
I don't think anyone needs the government's help to know that moving around is better than sitting all day. Whether or not one finds a way to fit that into their routine is a personal choice, but this is common sense.
- devinmcafee 7y ago
  I don't think people know that simply getting up and walking for 10 minutes every 2 hours would reduce their body fat levels. In fact, I've seen a study [1] which concludes you simply can't undo a days worth of sitting with a vigorous exercise session. I think science is starting to show that frequency of movement is an important part of a healthy lifestyle, not just intensity of movement. Going to the gym after 8 hours infront of the computer is just not sufficient to combat weight gain. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    Weight gain is orthogonal to this, as you could just adjust the diet. You would have to do multiple hours of exercise to lose weight that is not just water. But the difference for cardiovascular and respiratory systems and especially back and neck muscles is big with something as simple as basic walking exercise. Exercise is not for weight loss, it's too stay fit and healthy. And yes, small regular exercise beats hard exhausting bursts.
  - agota 7y ago
    This study looks interesting, thank you!
tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
> How do we interpret and apply information like this? Specifically for me, I like the fact that my Apple Watch reminds me to stand after it has detected I have been siting for a long period of time. It also prompts me to take a brisk walk as well.
hombre_fatal 7y ago
Where there's a will, there's a way. At first I was known as that pushup guy at the office, then all the guys did it with me. It was almost a joke. "Alright, it's pushup time!" and my group did pushups. We even got a pullup bar installed. Some people preferred to take those times to walk a lap outside. If we're going to generalize about what can/can't be done at a software developer job, punctuating the job with some brief exercise is in the "can" camp.
- phamjamstudio 7y ago
  Haha that's really good. In addition to my under desk treadmill, I also brought some resistant bands so my neighbors and I can occasionally do curls, shoulder presses, etc.
- ravenstine 7y ago
  Unfortunately, there are workplaces that will remove things like a pullup bar because it's seen as a distraction.
  - phamjamstudio 7y ago
    Certainly varies, there is a portable pull bar that someone brought into our office that some of us use. It's been there for at least two years
  - sterkekoffie 7y ago
    I would be pretty distracted if there were people using pullup bars and doing pushups in my office...
    - hombre_fatal 7y ago
      If your office consists of just one big room where everything must happen, then pullups/pushups are probably the least of your distractions.
      - justinator 7y ago
Cyclone_ 7y ago
Do things like take breaks to walk around, use a standing desk, do some sort of physical activity before lunch like go swimming or ride a bike. If the company frowns on this shame on them for being a horrible place to work.
tom_mellior 7y ago
I work in front of a computer, at a standing desk. You can get adjustable desks too and stand for part of the day. The "not sitting" part is achievable, I believe there are countries (Denmark maybe?) that even mandate that computer desks in offices be adjustable so everyone can choose whether to sit or stand. That said, I've been working at my standing desk for over a year, I wasn't very fit before, and I don't feel any different now. I don't think that literal "not sitting" has great benefits in itself. Standing is not exercise, you would have to move more to get a real benefit. This study might be measuring a difference in steps taken rather than in "sedentary" behavior vs. standing in place.
- Vervious 7y ago
  Standing desks have their problems too (veins, etc). Seems that treadmill desks or literally taking a walk are much preferable
  - Apocryphon 7y ago
    I'd think that at the very least, it's more difficult to stand still for long periods without walking around at least a little bit, than to remain sitting. So prolonged standing presents a lower barrier of entry to not being sedentary.
  - boring_twenties 7y ago
    I used a walking desk for a couple of days a few years ago. It was fine for stuff like reading and responding to emails, but I couldn't write even simple programs while walking.
- Dumblydorr 7y ago
  The issue is remaining static, sitting is fine in small doses but the longer you sit, the more problematic as blood pools, muscles adaptively shorten, and your posture deteriorates. Sitting down, getting up, walking, driving, we also need to be cognizant of our posture and form during these motions, as there are right and wrong ways that put more or less stress on the body. For instance, sitting down from the hips, bending from those joints while maintaining an upright chest. Or walking, ensuring your feet point mostly parallel and forward, not out to the sides. Also, computer guy posture is rampant amongst tech workers, taking time off to stretch and mobilize is key to avoid long term kyphosis.
localhost 7y ago
In the study, the participants reduced activity for a period of 14 days, with the results being fully reversed after 14 days of resuming normal activity. So I read the quoted recommendation above is to avoid sedentary periods that are on the same order of magnitude (multiple days) vs. avoiding sedentary periods within a single day. An anecdote: I had a short term knee issue that kept me off my mountain bike for most of the summer. What I didn't do was figure out a replacement activity for the 6-8 hours / week that I used to ride. I just did ... nothing and that had the predictable effect. Now that I'm recovered and riding 6-8 hours / week again, everything is returning back to normal.
wastedhours 7y ago
Drink lots of water - it's good for you and the enforced toilet breaks can add up to a lot of extra movement during the day.
Angostura 7y ago
I actually find the Apple Watch prompts to get off my arse if I haven't stood up in the last hour to be really quite useful. I'm sure there are cheaper ways.
- wayoutthere 7y ago
  All things considered, my Apple Watch has had the highest ROI of any piece of fitness gear I’ve ever bought. It finally integrated fitness into my life as a daily habit — I find myself actively wanting to run to improve my times and keep workout streaks alive. Gamification is pretty stupid for a lot of use cases, but really motivating for something like working out.
gameswithgo 7y ago
go for a jog/walk/yoga/weights before work, at lunch, after work. or all 3
Porthos9K 7y ago
Maybe people shouldn't be working in front of a computer for 8-14 hours at a time, with only occasional breaks to use the toilet, get something to drink, or get lunch. What if the working conditions in tech are more inhumane than we've realized? Maybe we need to update OSHA regulations to cover inherently sedentary office work and boost the agency's enforcement budget so that they can do their jobs and protect workers like us.

ska 7y ago

> Many people work in front a computer these days so it can't actually be applied to them. This sort of advice can be literally applied to anyone who doesn't have severely limiting physical limitations. Sure, working in front of a screen is a constraint you may have to work around - but the rest of your time you make a lot of choices about. Just a for instance, I had a colleague recently who lived in typical suburbia and worked as a programmer. He changed two things: First was that while he still drove in every day, he left 30 min earlier and parked about 20 min away from the office. So he walked about 45 min to and from his car every day regardless. Second thing was to get up and walk nearly every day during lunch, just a little 15 min loop or so. He visibly lost weight, and claimed to feel great (and that his commute wasn't actually much longer - better traffic)

chrisweekly 7y ago

Standing desks and frequent breaks are 100% compatible with virtually any computer -related job. Even in the context of "Deep Work" sessions (cf Cal Newport), it's a matter of making a point of periodically stretching your legs and giving your eyes a chance to focus on distant objects

hanniabu 7y ago

> How do we interpret and apply information like this? Sedentary desk jobs should be considered work hazards and employees should be given desks that can easily be changed to a standing desk and also be allotted a walking break every 15-30min, or install rows of treadmills with an ergonomic laptop holder.

AstralStorm 7y ago
In Poland, such a break is codified in law for sedentary workers. (But it's shorter and you get to distribute it yourself.) The problem is finding space to walk in. Most offices are not designed for hiking.

justinator 7y ago

It's kind of like taking drugs, you know? The activity you do is somewhat slowly killing you, so be kinda/sorta OK with that. Being a little less flippant, my suggestion is to fight for livable cities where car ownership is one option out of many others, including walking and riding bicycles. If you get out of bed, then straight to your car, then drive to work, to then sit some more (x5 days each week), just to reverse it, it's going to be detrimental in the long run to your health - there's just no other way around it. If that seems unbelievable, think of the diseases of affluence we, as a culture, have: Type II diabetes, heart disease, etc. Our bodies were born to move, not to code all day to then vegetate all night.

phamjamstudio 7y ago

I use an under desk treadmill (iMovr ThermoTread GT) and average 2.5 mi per day. It's fairly quiet and most of my peers like it. There are also bike options if that's preferred

DoreenMichele 7y ago

You need to walk/exercise moderately at least 30 minutes a day. Though, granted, studies show that exercise doesn't fully offset the negative impact from sitting for hours at a time. When I had a corporate job, I got up every hour on the hour to go the bathroom. It was a huge building, so that got me more walking in than you might assume from the description.

coldtea 7y ago

>Many people work in front a computer these days so it can't actually be applied to them (read us). Unless those people are tied or in cages, it can be. First of all, you can take breaks and walks even around the office (e.g. once an hour). Second, there are standing desks, which are trivially accepted in most workplaces. Third, "avoid periods" doesn't have to be "avoid several hour stretches". It can just be "avoid day stretches", in other words, sitting for 8 hours and then going for a walk after (or before) work, is still ok.

jobigoud 7y ago

Anytime I have to think about an issue I need to step away from the screen. I work from home and usually unless I'm actively typing or looking at references I'm walking around thinking about stuff.

simonebrunozzi 7y ago

If you are reading this message, and you are in front of a computer (instead of, e.g., walking around and reading this on a mobile device), please stand up for ten seconds, take a deep breath, and sit down again.

graeme 7y ago

The study had people walk 10,000 fewer steps in a day. So, walking more would reverse it if the study was right. In practice it would mean taking periodic breaks to walk around a bit, and trying to arrange things such that you could walk some of your commute, or walk to the store, etc Obviously harder for people in suburbia.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
Does that follow though? They took 10,000 fewer steps away, yes, but was there actually any judgement in how those steps were gained/lost? I'm curious if the same effect as those 10,0000 steps could be found simply by going out for an hour walk and still sitting for the rest.
- bigmit37 7y ago
  I was also disappointed in the lack of solution as well. We know more exercise is better, how how much would be needed if we have be on the computer 8 hrs a day etc. Couid 5-10 mins every hour of walking prevent these issues etc.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bonestamp2 7y ago
> harder in suburbia True, takes some adjustments... When I drive somewhere, I try to park at the back of the parking lot for a bit of a walk (bonus: keeps your car dent free too). When I go check my mail, I walk to the end of the block first and get it on my way back (bonus: get to keep an eye on my neighborhood and say hi to some neighbors). When I drop my daughter at school we park a block away and walk in (bonus: get to spend more time with my daughter and meet some other parents). These changes all sound trivial, but from my fitness tracker I can attest that they make a quantifiable difference, especially when you look at it over a month. Additionally, those other little bonuses contribute to overall happiness.
- graeme 7y ago

zebraflask 7y ago

I find excuses to take short breaks during the day where I can walk somewhere. If there's a choice between the stairs or an elevator - the stairs. Little things like that are low impact, but they add up.

caymanjim 7y ago

I don't think anyone needs the government's help to know that moving around is better than sitting all day. Whether or not one finds a way to fit that into their routine is a personal choice, but this is common sense.

devinmcafee 7y ago
I don't think people know that simply getting up and walking for 10 minutes every 2 hours would reduce their body fat levels. In fact, I've seen a study [1] which concludes you simply can't undo a days worth of sitting with a vigorous exercise session. I think science is starting to show that frequency of movement is an important part of a healthy lifestyle, not just intensity of movement. Going to the gym after 8 hours infront of the computer is just not sufficient to combat weight gain. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Weight gain is orthogonal to this, as you could just adjust the diet. You would have to do multiple hours of exercise to lose weight that is not just water. But the difference for cardiovascular and respiratory systems and especially back and neck muscles is big with something as simple as basic walking exercise. Exercise is not for weight loss, it's too stay fit and healthy. And yes, small regular exercise beats hard exhausting bursts.
- agota 7y ago
  This study looks interesting, thank you!

tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago

> How do we interpret and apply information like this? Specifically for me, I like the fact that my Apple Watch reminds me to stand after it has detected I have been siting for a long period of time. It also prompts me to take a brisk walk as well.

hombre_fatal 7y ago

Where there's a will, there's a way. At first I was known as that pushup guy at the office, then all the guys did it with me. It was almost a joke. "Alright, it's pushup time!" and my group did pushups. We even got a pullup bar installed. Some people preferred to take those times to walk a lap outside. If we're going to generalize about what can/can't be done at a software developer job, punctuating the job with some brief exercise is in the "can" camp.

phamjamstudio 7y ago
Haha that's really good. In addition to my under desk treadmill, I also brought some resistant bands so my neighbors and I can occasionally do curls, shoulder presses, etc.
ravenstine 7y ago
Unfortunately, there are workplaces that will remove things like a pullup bar because it's seen as a distraction.
- phamjamstudio 7y ago
  Certainly varies, there is a portable pull bar that someone brought into our office that some of us use. It's been there for at least two years
- sterkekoffie 7y ago
  I would be pretty distracted if there were people using pullup bars and doing pushups in my office...
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    If your office consists of just one big room where everything must happen, then pullups/pushups are probably the least of your distractions.
    - justinator 7y ago

Cyclone_ 7y ago

Do things like take breaks to walk around, use a standing desk, do some sort of physical activity before lunch like go swimming or ride a bike. If the company frowns on this shame on them for being a horrible place to work.

tom_mellior 7y ago

I work in front of a computer, at a standing desk. You can get adjustable desks too and stand for part of the day. The "not sitting" part is achievable, I believe there are countries (Denmark maybe?) that even mandate that computer desks in offices be adjustable so everyone can choose whether to sit or stand. That said, I've been working at my standing desk for over a year, I wasn't very fit before, and I don't feel any different now. I don't think that literal "not sitting" has great benefits in itself. Standing is not exercise, you would have to move more to get a real benefit. This study might be measuring a difference in steps taken rather than in "sedentary" behavior vs. standing in place.

Vervious 7y ago
Standing desks have their problems too (veins, etc). Seems that treadmill desks or literally taking a walk are much preferable
- Apocryphon 7y ago
  I'd think that at the very least, it's more difficult to stand still for long periods without walking around at least a little bit, than to remain sitting. So prolonged standing presents a lower barrier of entry to not being sedentary.
- boring_twenties 7y ago
  I used a walking desk for a couple of days a few years ago. It was fine for stuff like reading and responding to emails, but I couldn't write even simple programs while walking.
Dumblydorr 7y ago
The issue is remaining static, sitting is fine in small doses but the longer you sit, the more problematic as blood pools, muscles adaptively shorten, and your posture deteriorates. Sitting down, getting up, walking, driving, we also need to be cognizant of our posture and form during these motions, as there are right and wrong ways that put more or less stress on the body. For instance, sitting down from the hips, bending from those joints while maintaining an upright chest. Or walking, ensuring your feet point mostly parallel and forward, not out to the sides. Also, computer guy posture is rampant amongst tech workers, taking time off to stretch and mobilize is key to avoid long term kyphosis.

localhost 7y ago

In the study, the participants reduced activity for a period of 14 days, with the results being fully reversed after 14 days of resuming normal activity. So I read the quoted recommendation above is to avoid sedentary periods that are on the same order of magnitude (multiple days) vs. avoiding sedentary periods within a single day. An anecdote: I had a short term knee issue that kept me off my mountain bike for most of the summer. What I didn't do was figure out a replacement activity for the 6-8 hours / week that I used to ride. I just did ... nothing and that had the predictable effect. Now that I'm recovered and riding 6-8 hours / week again, everything is returning back to normal.

wastedhours 7y ago

Drink lots of water - it's good for you and the enforced toilet breaks can add up to a lot of extra movement during the day.

Angostura 7y ago

I actually find the Apple Watch prompts to get off my arse if I haven't stood up in the last hour to be really quite useful. I'm sure there are cheaper ways.

wayoutthere 7y ago
All things considered, my Apple Watch has had the highest ROI of any piece of fitness gear I’ve ever bought. It finally integrated fitness into my life as a daily habit — I find myself actively wanting to run to improve my times and keep workout streaks alive. Gamification is pretty stupid for a lot of use cases, but really motivating for something like working out.

gameswithgo 7y ago

go for a jog/walk/yoga/weights before work, at lunch, after work. or all 3

Porthos9K 7y ago

Maybe people shouldn't be working in front of a computer for 8-14 hours at a time, with only occasional breaks to use the toilet, get something to drink, or get lunch. What if the working conditions in tech are more inhumane than we've realized? Maybe we need to update OSHA regulations to cover inherently sedentary office work and boost the agency's enforcement budget so that they can do their jobs and protect workers like us.