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"Although its unlikely a policy change this momentous would be made, Valve has a history of making changes based on court rulings it’s involved in." Sooo...Val

"Although its unlikely a policy change this momentous would be made, Valve has a history of making changes based on court rulings it’s involved in." Sooo...Valve has a history of changing its policies to follow the law?

impalallama 7y ago
Steams refund policy came about not long after being convicted in Australian court for not allowing them.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  "convicted"? It seems as though this would be a civil issue, not criminal. I'm not sure to which case you're referring in Australia, but it appears this case was civil.
  - waste_monk 7y ago
    https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-federal-court-confirms-that-valve-misled-gamers https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-federal-court-con... TL;DR they got a big fine and also had to put a message on the storefront informing customers of their rights under Australian consumer law.
behringer 7y ago
Pretty strange in this day and age with companies like Uber, Google or Facebook.
vonmoltke 7y ago
> Sooo...Valve has a history of changing its policies to follow the law? The article isn't well written, but I believe the point is about Valve making the change worldwide, even though their legal obligation is just to do it in France (or possibly the EU).
- hnarn 7y ago
  From the article: > the high court ruled that, under European Union law, Steam customers have a right to be able to resell ‘dematerialised’ goods, i.e., digital games on Steam. IANAL but while this is a French high court, they have clearly interpreted EU (not domestic) law, so I think it's safe to say that if Valve loses the appeal, or decides to change it regardless ahead of time, they likely won't take the unnecessary risk of not rolling it out across the EU.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  If they have to build infrastructure to support reselling game use licenses to comply with this law, it's unlikely they'll be able to justify releasing it to France only; there'll be backlash from their users in other countries.
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    Companies release features to some regions all the time. For example, in Google Photos, you can search by face in the USA but not Europe (due to differing privacy expectations).
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      Huh. TIL regarding Google Photos. That sucks; glad I'm in the US because I use that feature often. It's great for when friends ask for the photos I took of them. In any case, I predict the Steam situation will differ because privacy and retail goods are valued differently. Americans are going to want that feature if Steam has to implement it, and they have options regarding what game store they use; it becomes a point of competitive advantage for Steam to switch it on in the States. They'll have to do the calculus on whether they lose more potential developers if they do vs. lose more potential store users if they don't.
      - Ultcyber 7y ago
        Funny enough, if you use a USA based VPN server, the option will appear on your account and you'll be able to activate it. It Will stay activr for your account even if you switch back from VPN
benologist 7y ago
Yes. They were fined over a million dollars in Australia for inventing a refund policy of "go fuck yourself", which it turns out is simply criminal in some jurisdictions. They stole from an estimated 20,000 Australians with that fraud, unfortunately they dodged accountability where the other 95% of their customers are located, but they did implement a more ethical refund policy when they realized how badly they messed up by banning people who asked for lawful refunds and eliminating their entire purchased library. https://www.ibtimes.com/steam-vs-australia-valve-fined-3-million-failing-give-refunds-australian-steam-users-2465033 https://www.ibtimes.com/steam-vs-australia-valve-fined-3-mil... GOG carry on the tradition with a refund policy designed not to refund anyone and begging for a judge to examine it. Their intention is to prove the game you purchased can open thus you might play it so all purchases are de facto final.
- on_and_off 7y ago
  Nintendo would be another such company .. Impossible to get a refund from them if you buy something in their digital store.

impalallama 7y ago

Steams refund policy came about not long after being convicted in Australian court for not allowing them.

big_chungus 7y ago
"convicted"? It seems as though this would be a civil issue, not criminal. I'm not sure to which case you're referring in Australia, but it appears this case was civil.
- waste_monk 7y ago
  https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-federal-court-confirms-that-valve-misled-gamers https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-federal-court-con... TL;DR they got a big fine and also had to put a message on the storefront informing customers of their rights under Australian consumer law.

behringer 7y ago

Pretty strange in this day and age with companies like Uber, Google or Facebook.

vonmoltke 7y ago

> Sooo...Valve has a history of changing its policies to follow the law? The article isn't well written, but I believe the point is about Valve making the change worldwide, even though their legal obligation is just to do it in France (or possibly the EU).

hnarn 7y ago
From the article: > the high court ruled that, under European Union law, Steam customers have a right to be able to resell ‘dematerialised’ goods, i.e., digital games on Steam. IANAL but while this is a French high court, they have clearly interpreted EU (not domestic) law, so I think it's safe to say that if Valve loses the appeal, or decides to change it regardless ahead of time, they likely won't take the unnecessary risk of not rolling it out across the EU.
shadowgovt 7y ago
If they have to build infrastructure to support reselling game use licenses to comply with this law, it's unlikely they'll be able to justify releasing it to France only; there'll be backlash from their users in other countries.
- londons_explore 7y ago
  Companies release features to some regions all the time. For example, in Google Photos, you can search by face in the USA but not Europe (due to differing privacy expectations).
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    Huh. TIL regarding Google Photos. That sucks; glad I'm in the US because I use that feature often. It's great for when friends ask for the photos I took of them. In any case, I predict the Steam situation will differ because privacy and retail goods are valued differently. Americans are going to want that feature if Steam has to implement it, and they have options regarding what game store they use; it becomes a point of competitive advantage for Steam to switch it on in the States. They'll have to do the calculus on whether they lose more potential developers if they do vs. lose more potential store users if they don't.
    - Ultcyber 7y ago
      Funny enough, if you use a USA based VPN server, the option will appear on your account and you'll be able to activate it. It Will stay activr for your account even if you switch back from VPN

benologist 7y ago

Yes. They were fined over a million dollars in Australia for inventing a refund policy of "go fuck yourself", which it turns out is simply criminal in some jurisdictions. They stole from an estimated 20,000 Australians with that fraud, unfortunately they dodged accountability where the other 95% of their customers are located, but they did implement a more ethical refund policy when they realized how badly they messed up by banning people who asked for lawful refunds and eliminating their entire purchased library. https://www.ibtimes.com/steam-vs-australia-valve-fined-3-million-failing-give-refunds-australian-steam-users-2465033 https://www.ibtimes.com/steam-vs-australia-valve-fined-3-mil... GOG carry on the tradition with a refund policy designed not to refund anyone and begging for a judge to examine it. Their intention is to prove the game you purchased can open thus you might play it so all purchases are de facto final.

on_and_off 7y ago
Nintendo would be another such company .. Impossible to get a refund from them if you buy something in their digital store.