5 ms·

Eli5 how does minimum unit pricing work exactly?

by choeger 7y ago

throwaway66920 7y ago
Presumably you can’t go below a certain price per liter
- inops 7y ago
  Per unit. The effects of a litre of vodka isn't the effects of a litre of cider.
- recursion 7y ago
  Basically. There is a minimum price set of 0.50 per unit. This means a bottle of whisky, 70cl at 37.5% ABV cannot retail for less than £14 whereas previously these would be on promotion sometimes at £11/£12/£13. By setting it per unit instead of quantity of drink the government targets super strength cheap cider etc that were linked to lots of anti-social behaviour and crime.
  - tomjen3 7y ago
    How about an offer of 15 with a 3 pound non-transferable (therefore worthless) store credit?
- alkonaut 7y ago
  Yes - per liter of pure ethanol. If you buy a pint of regular lager beer you are buying basically 0.56L times 5.2% alcohol which is 2.9 cl pure ethanol, or as a brit would some times say "about 3 units". So a minimum proce per unit is the same as a minimum price per litre of pure ethanol. The minimum price per liter of ethanol is 100x the minimum price per unit (since one unit is 1 cl pure ethanol). The reason this is so fantastically confusing is because sometimes even regulators use "alcohol" to refer to the drink, and not the ethanol.
brianmcc 7y ago
Per unit of alcohol -> https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7130/economics/minimum-price-for-alcohol-pros-and-cons/ https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7130/economics/minimum-pr...
baxter001 7y ago
Stronger drinks that contain more units of alcohol have a higher minimum price than drinks that contain less alcohol. Drinks that have been most affected include strong white cider, own brand vodka and gin, and super strength lager. A bottle of wine containing 10 units of alcohol has to be sold for at least £5, and a can of lager containing 2 units of alcohol has to cost at least £1. Unlike supermarkets and off-licences, most drinks sold in pubs, clubs and restaurants already cost more than 50p per unit so there is no real difference under minimum pricing. Minimum pricing is an effective policy because it targets the drinkers causing the most harm to themselves and society, whilst having almost no effect on moderate drinkers.
pjc50 7y ago
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2012/4/section/1 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2012/4/section/1 All alcohol sold is marked with the number of "units" it contains. Multiply that by the minimum unit price (currently £0.50) to get a minimum total price. Examples: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/scotland-minimum-alcohol-prices-cost-50p-unit-frosty-jack-strongbow-smirnoff-vodka-cider-whisky-wine-a8330681.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/scotland-minimum-al... See also https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/alcohol-scotland-deaths-buckfast-minimum-unit-price-record-low-england-wales-a8964011.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/alcohol-scotland-d...
- eyegor 7y ago
  > strength is taken to be the alcoholic strength by volume as indicated by the mark or label This phrasing frustrates me quite a bit. I assume they're referring to "% concentration of ethanol by volume", but they chose to express it in this obtuse "units" and "strength" nomenclature. (Or is this referring to the "proof" as the strength in their formula? Is that metric used in Scotland?)
  - kdmccormick 7y ago
    As Symbiote explains above, units are just (volume * %ABV) expressed in a standard unit -- centiliters. It seems like a great system... it's like "standard drinks" in the US but actually printed on bottles. I imagine removing the need for people to do multiplication in order to figure out how much they are drinking is probably a good thing.
    - kerkeslager 7y ago
      Units are centilitres, so why not just say centilitres? If the intent is to communicate to the public, this is not an effective way to do it.
      - rleigh 7y ago
        It's absolutely effective. Much of the public aren't as educated as we might like, and communication needs to be as simple as possible. Using units of measure will only serve to confuse, because it adds additional complexity in interpreting the advice. "Units" reduce the complexity to a single number. For most drinks it will be 1, 2 or 3 units. Simple numbers, single digits. General health advice will state that n units are the maximum recommended per week or day for men or for women. It's a single number to remember. Make sure the drinks you have total less than that maximum number, and you'll be following the recommendations. The aim here isn't to be scientifically accurate. It's to reduce the problem to its essentials so that the message is clear and simple, and everyone in the entire population can understand it and follow it. By that measure, it's wildly successful.
Symbiote 7y ago
A "unit" of alcohol is 1cL. This amount is commonly used in the UK -- the amount of alcohol in a drink is often printed on the label in "units", and people have some ideas around how many "units" one can drink safely. It's used in personal health education at school. The minimum price was set to 50p per unit / centilitre of alcohol. (Keeping easy metric amounts for simplicity. In bars beer and cider is sold in 568mL glasses, though wine and spirits are nice round metric amounts.) A 1L bottle of vodka, at 40% ABV, contains 40cL of alcohol. The shop or bar must sell it for at least 40×£0.50 = £20. In England, Tesco's cheapest 1L bottle of vodka is £15, so this has increased the price by £5 in Scotland. A fancy vodka which costs £22 in England is unaffected. A 2L bottle of cheap cider at 5% ABV must cost at least £5. At Tesco in England, this is available for about £2.
- XJ6 7y ago
  5% is considered weak for that kind of cheap cider too, white lightning was far stronger than that for a similar price. (And if I remember correctly usually came in 3L bottles)
  - michaelt 7y ago
    https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268607379 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268607379 - 2 litres @ 5% is 10 units of alcohol. Price now £2.05, with a mandatory minimum it'll rise to £5. Admittedly, 99% of the alcohol on the market is already well above the price minimum,
    - rconti 7y ago
      The higher end makers are probably glad the price curve is flattening. They can make a bit more profit and still be minimally more expensive than the cheap competition.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    Yes, was 8% around normal? But I went with what was for sale on the Tesco website. I think I read some time ago that they voluntarily stopped selling "White Lightning" etc. I bought it once when I was 15, so I'm a bit out of touch.
kerkeslager 7y ago
It's a minimum price per centilitre of pure alcohol.
microcolonel 7y ago
You must pay at least a certain amount of money for a certain mass of ethanol. The minimum price of any container of ethanol is determined by how much ethanol is in that container. In Ontario, Canada, it works differently. They attempt to apply different minimum prices to various broad categories of alcoholic drink (beer vs wine vs liquor).

Eli5 how does minimum unit pricing work exactly?

throwaway66920 7y ago

Presumably you can’t go below a certain price per liter

inops 7y ago
Per unit. The effects of a litre of vodka isn't the effects of a litre of cider.
recursion 7y ago
Basically. There is a minimum price set of 0.50 per unit. This means a bottle of whisky, 70cl at 37.5% ABV cannot retail for less than £14 whereas previously these would be on promotion sometimes at £11/£12/£13. By setting it per unit instead of quantity of drink the government targets super strength cheap cider etc that were linked to lots of anti-social behaviour and crime.
- tomjen3 7y ago
  How about an offer of 15 with a 3 pound non-transferable (therefore worthless) store credit?
alkonaut 7y ago
Yes - per liter of pure ethanol. If you buy a pint of regular lager beer you are buying basically 0.56L times 5.2% alcohol which is 2.9 cl pure ethanol, or as a brit would some times say "about 3 units". So a minimum proce per unit is the same as a minimum price per litre of pure ethanol. The minimum price per liter of ethanol is 100x the minimum price per unit (since one unit is 1 cl pure ethanol). The reason this is so fantastically confusing is because sometimes even regulators use "alcohol" to refer to the drink, and not the ethanol.

brianmcc 7y ago

Per unit of alcohol -> https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7130/economics/minimum-price-for-alcohol-pros-and-cons/ https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7130/economics/minimum-pr...

baxter001 7y ago

Stronger drinks that contain more units of alcohol have a higher minimum price than drinks that contain less alcohol. Drinks that have been most affected include strong white cider, own brand vodka and gin, and super strength lager. A bottle of wine containing 10 units of alcohol has to be sold for at least £5, and a can of lager containing 2 units of alcohol has to cost at least £1. Unlike supermarkets and off-licences, most drinks sold in pubs, clubs and restaurants already cost more than 50p per unit so there is no real difference under minimum pricing. Minimum pricing is an effective policy because it targets the drinkers causing the most harm to themselves and society, whilst having almost no effect on moderate drinkers.

pjc50 7y ago

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2012/4/section/1 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2012/4/section/1 All alcohol sold is marked with the number of "units" it contains. Multiply that by the minimum unit price (currently £0.50) to get a minimum total price. Examples: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/scotland-minimum-alcohol-prices-cost-50p-unit-frosty-jack-strongbow-smirnoff-vodka-cider-whisky-wine-a8330681.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/scotland-minimum-al... See also https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/alcohol-scotland-deaths-buckfast-minimum-unit-price-record-low-england-wales-a8964011.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/alcohol-scotland-d...

eyegor 7y ago
> strength is taken to be the alcoholic strength by volume as indicated by the mark or label This phrasing frustrates me quite a bit. I assume they're referring to "% concentration of ethanol by volume", but they chose to express it in this obtuse "units" and "strength" nomenclature. (Or is this referring to the "proof" as the strength in their formula? Is that metric used in Scotland?)
- kdmccormick 7y ago
  As Symbiote explains above, units are just (volume * %ABV) expressed in a standard unit -- centiliters. It seems like a great system... it's like "standard drinks" in the US but actually printed on bottles. I imagine removing the need for people to do multiplication in order to figure out how much they are drinking is probably a good thing.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    Units are centilitres, so why not just say centilitres? If the intent is to communicate to the public, this is not an effective way to do it.
    - rleigh 7y ago
      It's absolutely effective. Much of the public aren't as educated as we might like, and communication needs to be as simple as possible. Using units of measure will only serve to confuse, because it adds additional complexity in interpreting the advice. "Units" reduce the complexity to a single number. For most drinks it will be 1, 2 or 3 units. Simple numbers, single digits. General health advice will state that n units are the maximum recommended per week or day for men or for women. It's a single number to remember. Make sure the drinks you have total less than that maximum number, and you'll be following the recommendations. The aim here isn't to be scientifically accurate. It's to reduce the problem to its essentials so that the message is clear and simple, and everyone in the entire population can understand it and follow it. By that measure, it's wildly successful.

Symbiote 7y ago

A "unit" of alcohol is 1cL. This amount is commonly used in the UK -- the amount of alcohol in a drink is often printed on the label in "units", and people have some ideas around how many "units" one can drink safely. It's used in personal health education at school. The minimum price was set to 50p per unit / centilitre of alcohol. (Keeping easy metric amounts for simplicity. In bars beer and cider is sold in 568mL glasses, though wine and spirits are nice round metric amounts.) A 1L bottle of vodka, at 40% ABV, contains 40cL of alcohol. The shop or bar must sell it for at least 40×£0.50 = £20. In England, Tesco's cheapest 1L bottle of vodka is £15, so this has increased the price by £5 in Scotland. A fancy vodka which costs £22 in England is unaffected. A 2L bottle of cheap cider at 5% ABV must cost at least £5. At Tesco in England, this is available for about £2.

XJ6 7y ago
5% is considered weak for that kind of cheap cider too, white lightning was far stronger than that for a similar price. (And if I remember correctly usually came in 3L bottles)
- michaelt 7y ago
  https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268607379 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268607379 - 2 litres @ 5% is 10 units of alcohol. Price now £2.05, with a mandatory minimum it'll rise to £5. Admittedly, 99% of the alcohol on the market is already well above the price minimum,
  - rconti 7y ago
    The higher end makers are probably glad the price curve is flattening. They can make a bit more profit and still be minimally more expensive than the cheap competition.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  Yes, was 8% around normal? But I went with what was for sale on the Tesco website. I think I read some time ago that they voluntarily stopped selling "White Lightning" etc. I bought it once when I was 15, so I'm a bit out of touch.

kerkeslager 7y ago

It's a minimum price per centilitre of pure alcohol.

microcolonel 7y ago

You must pay at least a certain amount of money for a certain mass of ethanol. The minimum price of any container of ethanol is determined by how much ethanol is in that container. In Ontario, Canada, it works differently. They attempt to apply different minimum prices to various broad categories of alcoholic drink (beer vs wine vs liquor).