8 ms·

The day ublock origin doesn't work on chrome is the day users will flock to firefox. We have seen time and time again that users aren't afraid of switching brow

by kache_ 7y ago

The day ublock origin doesn't work on chrome is the day users will flock to firefox. We have seen time and time again that users aren't afraid of switching browsers. This is because since their core functionality is so similar, small advantages will tip the scales.

blablabla123 7y ago
Exactly, especially for people who don't do web development the difference is hardly there. Actually I recently started to prefer Safari, despite its less smoother Tab UX but this was enough reason to make me switch to Firefox (Nightly). I'm also surprised that it seems to start faster than Safari.
hans1729 7y ago
As a chrome-user: this. Firefox lost me years ago due to performance differences, and since chrome works fine for me, there was no ux-related reason to switch back. The day I'll see ads everywhere will be the day I'm back to firefox, and without second thoughts at that. If I really like your service, I'll happily pay for it. I hate ads, the psychological strats behind them are completely unacceptable. I'd happily pay google a subscription-rate, if that's what it takes tbh. Take my money, not my attention.
- sprafa 7y ago
  Firefox is fast again
  - Endy 7y ago
    Firefox always was fast. You were using it wrong.
- collyw 7y ago
  I think Firefox is faster than Chrome these days. Unfortunately I prefer the web developer tools in Chrome, so I use Chromium as I wasn't a fan of every URL I type going to Google.
  - treypitt 7y ago
    Likewise. Unfortunately, some services such as YouTube TV don't work on chromium. Also if you're not on linux, updating is a pain (you must do it manually iirc)
    - collyw 7y ago
      Opera was my other workaround.
      - BuckRogers 7y ago
        Have you tried the Edge[0] preview dev tools? I have not but I know it also has an extension[1] for VSCode that seems interesting. [0]https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/ https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/ [1]https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-edgedevtools.vscode-edge-devtools https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-edged...
        collyw 7y ago
        I use Linux.
        BuckRogers 7y ago
        Edge is macOS/Windows only but VSCode is available over there. Worth keeping an eye out because I wouldn't be surprised if Edge lands on desktop Linux[0] someday. I'm not a web developer and a Firefox diehard for almost 20 years now, but the Edge beta has become my fulltime Chrome alternative when I feel I need to try something on a Chromium-based browser. [0]https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/04/microsoft-edge-may-come-to-linux-eventually-just-not-right-now https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/04/microsoft-edge-may-come-...
  - lostmsu 7y ago
    Just a general warning. A few days ago I noticed Chromium from Chocolatey did not receive any updates in quite a while.
- ryanisnan 7y ago
  Is unlimited system resource usage ok for you? If not, you should really re-evaluate your premise of performance differences. Fire up sys mon, activity mon, top, or what have you, open both browsers. Firefox wins on every metric by substantial amounts (memory for example wins by an order of magnitude).
  - krzyk 7y ago
    Chrome uses more memory than Firefox. Just try opening 50 tabs in each - chrome will eat your RAM.
    - bduerst 7y ago
      I've never understood this argument. What's the purpose of having RAM if it's not utilized?
      - ryanisnan 7y ago
        That logic works if you're not bounded on RAM, but it's not an inexhaustible resource; personally I'd rather keep it free for VMs or other high cost operations.
  - hans1729 7y ago
    Since I never max out my resources (mbp 2016, 16 gigs, entire workload happens on servers and not on my local machine) that doesn't really affect me - and with 50+ tabs open frequently, just go ahead and take my ram to keep them available, sure. Unused resources are wasted resources - and again, I'm never above 10gigs, maybe 12-13 if I have a local vm running. Like I said: ux-wise, I'm not impacted negatively by using chrome, at all. If my laptops resources were more limited or my local workload was bigger, I'd probably check out Firefox, but since I'm not bottlenecked, why bother?
dondada 7y ago
You'd be surprised how many people don't use adblockers. There will be a few people switching but I don't think anymore than 1% of total Chrome users
- dmix 7y ago
  People always downplay the power that technical users have on regular people. Who do you think the moms and friends all listen to? Their technical friends. This of course won't hit 90% of users but it's enough to have a large influence well beyond just power users. Few companies survive pissing off the nerds when there is legitimate competition available in consumer products.
  - citilife 7y ago
    Tell that to Oracle...
    - dmix 7y ago
      B2B enterprise sales is a totally different beast than free consumer software. That type of boardroom decision making is inherently disconnected from the technical capabilities and even integration success rates.
  - packet_nerd 7y ago
    > Few companies survive pissing off the nerds I wish this sage advice was part of every business executive's education. :-)
- loeg 7y ago
  It's a rapidly shrinking majority. There's a network effect here where people learn about things and share with their friends. You're probably not wrong that there will not be a rapid initial migration. Maybe more over a longer time period. Maybe not.
- 9dl 7y ago
  You'd be surprised how not many people need to change trend And for small browser like safari it will be fast death And for chrome On mobile chrome is already (for me) dead coz it not allow extensions
iamnotacrook 7y ago
You say that (and I agree - I use Firefox everywhere because there's no Chrome plugin support on Android) but I'm genuinely curious to see what happens if/when Chrome stops supporting ublock origin. I suspect - sadly - that there won't be the "flocking to firefox" we might be hoping for. Just enough ads will get blocked with a new, gimped ublock origin, or built-in ad blocking of some flavour, to prevent any meaningful exodus.
tyingq 7y ago
"The day ublock origin doesn't work on chrome..." The manifest v3 proposal takes chrome down to roughly the same level as Safari for ad blocking plugins. https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338#issuecomment-496009417 https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338#iss... So, that day isn't far off. It was supposed to be in canary last month, I haven't checked.
mumblemumble 7y ago
This was true during an intermediate period where all browsers were more-or-less equivalent. It wasn't true before then, when many sites were designed with Internet Explorer in mind, and tended to work less well on other browsers. I don't think it will be true now, either, now that most sites are designed with Chrome in mind, and tend to work less well on other browsers. The big difference is that the functionality problems 20 years ago were easier to explain, and therefore easier to get people upset about. It's a lot easier to weave a compelling political story about straight-up incompatibility than it is to weave one about degraded performance due to differing just-in-time compiler optimization behavior. Also, we seem to be stuck in a situation where people are still so fixated on a monarch that hasn't been in power for over a decade that they maybe haven't been so concerned that the old monarch's overthrower has consolidated power to become a new monarch.
- magashna 7y ago
  There seems to be this idea that some sites work worse with FF but in all the time Chrome has existed, I've never found any sites that didn't work with FF.
  - asdff 7y ago
    Maybe it's ublock, but I've had plenty of sites that just don't work on firefox. barclaycard, blackboard, and the schools web print system (dts) are my recent examples.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    I agree. I've never encountered a site that didn't work in FF. But I have seen sites that don't work in Safari.
    - viraptor 7y ago
      zoom web client doesn't do audio on ff. It's a bit of a special case and they do have a dedicated app, so it's not the end of the world.
collyw 7y ago
That will be a good thing.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
Counter-example: Firefox on Android is pretty much the only thing that supports UBO there, and its market share is negligible. I find that baffling.
- jannes 7y ago
  Firefox on Android is a usability shitshow compared to Chrome on Android. And I say that as someone who doesn't like Google products. I think most people who wanted adblocking on Android switched to Brave instead, which is essentially a Chrome fork without the Google stuff and with better tracking protection.
  - bryanlarsen 7y ago
    Firefox Preview is a lot better. But it doesn't support UBO yet, so I'm still on the old one.
  - dec0dedab0de 7y ago
    Firefox on Android is a usability shitshow compared to Chrome on Android. What makes you say that? Firefox has been my primary mobile browser for over 5 years, am I missing something?
    - RenRav 7y ago
      I personally never liked the nav bar and everything at the top. It loads sites much better than Brave and feels more precise for things like dismissing cookie/signup notifications, but navigating the interface always felt tedious. If they just had options for interface layout or nav bar contents it would be great.
    - smush 7y ago
      FFAndroid (Fennec?) does strange things. A few examples: 1. You are on this web page in Fennec[1], and you want to do a web search. Click the address bar, type in your query, hit go. Sometimes, Fennec will start the progress bar and act like it is searching, but will draw another tab in the main viewport before resetting the progress bar and changing the url to the SERP you want. If you don't know its going to do that, it looks like Fennec completely ignored your search and loaded another tab. 2. Fennec will sometimes lose its cool and stop rendering pages. The UI layers will respond, you can open hamburger menus, tab listings and thumbnails, but no matter what tab you select, it no longer renders anything but a blank canvas in the viewport. You have to force close Fennec to restore normal behaviors. 3. Fennec will after a long time of being active lose its extensions like noscript et al, you have to force close and re-open to get them to show up in the hamburger menu again. Stated as a die-hard Firefox for Android fan. [1] %s/Fennec/<whateverItActuallyIs/g
XzetaU8 7y ago
Or they will flock to Brave browser. https://twitter.com/brave/status/1088914000379731970 https://twitter.com/brave/status/1088914000379731970
johnnycab 7y ago
>The day ublock origin doesn't work on chrome is the day users will flock to firefox. >This is because since their core functionality is so similar, small advantages will tip the scales. It is a a bold assertion, which is not backed up by the data. Despite Mozilla repositioning Firefox recently and reclaiming some lost ground, it is to a larger extent, still only maintaining a steady set of core users. To make an assumption that small advantages will tip the scales in favour of FF is wishful thinking, as demonstrated by some of the conversations. Furthermore, it is inherently not in the best interests of Google to actively promote ad-blocking policy unless it serves it's own purpose, coupled with the acute awareness of why power users and developers pick Chrome ─ they are well positioned to throttle any competition. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20850135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20850135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20052623 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20052623
- secabeen 7y ago
  I have started moving my friends and family from Chrome to FF. Biggest piece is the privacy angle, but the multi-site containers is also pretty important. It's nice to be able to block facebook API calls from other sites, etc. etc.

by kache_ 7y ago

blablabla123 7y ago

Exactly, especially for people who don't do web development the difference is hardly there. Actually I recently started to prefer Safari, despite its less smoother Tab UX but this was enough reason to make me switch to Firefox (Nightly). I'm also surprised that it seems to start faster than Safari.

hans1729 7y ago

As a chrome-user: this. Firefox lost me years ago due to performance differences, and since chrome works fine for me, there was no ux-related reason to switch back. The day I'll see ads everywhere will be the day I'm back to firefox, and without second thoughts at that. If I really like your service, I'll happily pay for it. I hate ads, the psychological strats behind them are completely unacceptable. I'd happily pay google a subscription-rate, if that's what it takes tbh. Take my money, not my attention.

sprafa 7y ago
Firefox is fast again
- Endy 7y ago
  Firefox always was fast. You were using it wrong.
collyw 7y ago
I think Firefox is faster than Chrome these days. Unfortunately I prefer the web developer tools in Chrome, so I use Chromium as I wasn't a fan of every URL I type going to Google.
- treypitt 7y ago
  Likewise. Unfortunately, some services such as YouTube TV don't work on chromium. Also if you're not on linux, updating is a pain (you must do it manually iirc)
  - collyw 7y ago
    Opera was my other workaround.
    - BuckRogers 7y ago
      Have you tried the Edge[0] preview dev tools? I have not but I know it also has an extension[1] for VSCode that seems interesting. [0]https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/ https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/ [1]https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-edgedevtools.vscode-edge-devtools https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-edged...
      - collyw 7y ago
        I use Linux.
        BuckRogers 7y ago
        Edge is macOS/Windows only but VSCode is available over there. Worth keeping an eye out because I wouldn't be surprised if Edge lands on desktop Linux[0] someday. I'm not a web developer and a Firefox diehard for almost 20 years now, but the Edge beta has become my fulltime Chrome alternative when I feel I need to try something on a Chromium-based browser. [0]https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/04/microsoft-edge-may-come-to-linux-eventually-just-not-right-now https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/04/microsoft-edge-may-come-...
- lostmsu 7y ago
  Just a general warning. A few days ago I noticed Chromium from Chocolatey did not receive any updates in quite a while.
ryanisnan 7y ago
Is unlimited system resource usage ok for you? If not, you should really re-evaluate your premise of performance differences. Fire up sys mon, activity mon, top, or what have you, open both browsers. Firefox wins on every metric by substantial amounts (memory for example wins by an order of magnitude).
- krzyk 7y ago
  Chrome uses more memory than Firefox. Just try opening 50 tabs in each - chrome will eat your RAM.
  - bduerst 7y ago
    I've never understood this argument. What's the purpose of having RAM if it's not utilized?
    - ryanisnan 7y ago
      That logic works if you're not bounded on RAM, but it's not an inexhaustible resource; personally I'd rather keep it free for VMs or other high cost operations.
- hans1729 7y ago
  Since I never max out my resources (mbp 2016, 16 gigs, entire workload happens on servers and not on my local machine) that doesn't really affect me - and with 50+ tabs open frequently, just go ahead and take my ram to keep them available, sure. Unused resources are wasted resources - and again, I'm never above 10gigs, maybe 12-13 if I have a local vm running. Like I said: ux-wise, I'm not impacted negatively by using chrome, at all. If my laptops resources were more limited or my local workload was bigger, I'd probably check out Firefox, but since I'm not bottlenecked, why bother?

dondada 7y ago

You'd be surprised how many people don't use adblockers. There will be a few people switching but I don't think anymore than 1% of total Chrome users

dmix 7y ago
People always downplay the power that technical users have on regular people. Who do you think the moms and friends all listen to? Their technical friends. This of course won't hit 90% of users but it's enough to have a large influence well beyond just power users. Few companies survive pissing off the nerds when there is legitimate competition available in consumer products.
- citilife 7y ago
  Tell that to Oracle...
  - dmix 7y ago
    B2B enterprise sales is a totally different beast than free consumer software. That type of boardroom decision making is inherently disconnected from the technical capabilities and even integration success rates.
- packet_nerd 7y ago
  > Few companies survive pissing off the nerds I wish this sage advice was part of every business executive's education. :-)
loeg 7y ago
It's a rapidly shrinking majority. There's a network effect here where people learn about things and share with their friends. You're probably not wrong that there will not be a rapid initial migration. Maybe more over a longer time period. Maybe not.
9dl 7y ago
You'd be surprised how not many people need to change trend And for small browser like safari it will be fast death And for chrome On mobile chrome is already (for me) dead coz it not allow extensions

iamnotacrook 7y ago

You say that (and I agree - I use Firefox everywhere because there's no Chrome plugin support on Android) but I'm genuinely curious to see what happens if/when Chrome stops supporting ublock origin. I suspect - sadly - that there won't be the "flocking to firefox" we might be hoping for. Just enough ads will get blocked with a new, gimped ublock origin, or built-in ad blocking of some flavour, to prevent any meaningful exodus.

tyingq 7y ago

"The day ublock origin doesn't work on chrome..." The manifest v3 proposal takes chrome down to roughly the same level as Safari for ad blocking plugins. https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338#issuecomment-496009417 https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338#iss... So, that day isn't far off. It was supposed to be in canary last month, I haven't checked.

mumblemumble 7y ago

This was true during an intermediate period where all browsers were more-or-less equivalent. It wasn't true before then, when many sites were designed with Internet Explorer in mind, and tended to work less well on other browsers. I don't think it will be true now, either, now that most sites are designed with Chrome in mind, and tend to work less well on other browsers. The big difference is that the functionality problems 20 years ago were easier to explain, and therefore easier to get people upset about. It's a lot easier to weave a compelling political story about straight-up incompatibility than it is to weave one about degraded performance due to differing just-in-time compiler optimization behavior. Also, we seem to be stuck in a situation where people are still so fixated on a monarch that hasn't been in power for over a decade that they maybe haven't been so concerned that the old monarch's overthrower has consolidated power to become a new monarch.

magashna 7y ago
There seems to be this idea that some sites work worse with FF but in all the time Chrome has existed, I've never found any sites that didn't work with FF.
- asdff 7y ago
  Maybe it's ublock, but I've had plenty of sites that just don't work on firefox. barclaycard, blackboard, and the schools web print system (dts) are my recent examples.
- leereeves 7y ago
  I agree. I've never encountered a site that didn't work in FF. But I have seen sites that don't work in Safari.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    zoom web client doesn't do audio on ff. It's a bit of a special case and they do have a dedicated app, so it's not the end of the world.

collyw 7y ago

That will be a good thing.

bryanlarsen 7y ago

Counter-example: Firefox on Android is pretty much the only thing that supports UBO there, and its market share is negligible. I find that baffling.

jannes 7y ago
Firefox on Android is a usability shitshow compared to Chrome on Android. And I say that as someone who doesn't like Google products. I think most people who wanted adblocking on Android switched to Brave instead, which is essentially a Chrome fork without the Google stuff and with better tracking protection.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  Firefox Preview is a lot better. But it doesn't support UBO yet, so I'm still on the old one.
- dec0dedab0de 7y ago
  Firefox on Android is a usability shitshow compared to Chrome on Android. What makes you say that? Firefox has been my primary mobile browser for over 5 years, am I missing something?
  - RenRav 7y ago
    I personally never liked the nav bar and everything at the top. It loads sites much better than Brave and feels more precise for things like dismissing cookie/signup notifications, but navigating the interface always felt tedious. If they just had options for interface layout or nav bar contents it would be great.
  - smush 7y ago
    FFAndroid (Fennec?) does strange things. A few examples: 1. You are on this web page in Fennec[1], and you want to do a web search. Click the address bar, type in your query, hit go. Sometimes, Fennec will start the progress bar and act like it is searching, but will draw another tab in the main viewport before resetting the progress bar and changing the url to the SERP you want. If you don't know its going to do that, it looks like Fennec completely ignored your search and loaded another tab. 2. Fennec will sometimes lose its cool and stop rendering pages. The UI layers will respond, you can open hamburger menus, tab listings and thumbnails, but no matter what tab you select, it no longer renders anything but a blank canvas in the viewport. You have to force close Fennec to restore normal behaviors. 3. Fennec will after a long time of being active lose its extensions like noscript et al, you have to force close and re-open to get them to show up in the hamburger menu again. Stated as a die-hard Firefox for Android fan. [1] %s/Fennec/<whateverItActuallyIs/g

XzetaU8 7y ago

Or they will flock to Brave browser. https://twitter.com/brave/status/1088914000379731970 https://twitter.com/brave/status/1088914000379731970

johnnycab 7y ago

>The day ublock origin doesn't work on chrome is the day users will flock to firefox. >This is because since their core functionality is so similar, small advantages will tip the scales. It is a a bold assertion, which is not backed up by the data. Despite Mozilla repositioning Firefox recently and reclaiming some lost ground, it is to a larger extent, still only maintaining a steady set of core users. To make an assumption that small advantages will tip the scales in favour of FF is wishful thinking, as demonstrated by some of the conversations. Furthermore, it is inherently not in the best interests of Google to actively promote ad-blocking policy unless it serves it's own purpose, coupled with the acute awareness of why power users and developers pick Chrome ─ they are well positioned to throttle any competition. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20850135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20850135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20052623 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20052623

secabeen 7y ago
I have started moving my friends and family from Chrome to FF. Biggest piece is the privacy angle, but the multi-site containers is also pretty important. It's nice to be able to block facebook API calls from other sites, etc. etc.