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>Fuck fentanyl the perspective that somehow it's the drugs fault is both damaging to the recovery effort, the effort to reduce harm to the general public, and

by serf 7y ago

>Fuck fentanyl the perspective that somehow it's the drugs fault is both damaging to the recovery effort, the effort to reduce harm to the general public, and damaging to those of us with chronic pain that find fentanyl to be a solution to their woes. Point the blame where it belongs. Fuck under-regulation, over-prescription, greedy doctors, broken medical systems, for-profit care, and systematic government abuse.

cj 7y ago
That line of thinking is also used to argue against gun control. “Don’t blame the guns” But whether or not you subscribe to that thinking, most people can agree that it would be great if China stepped in to do something to control the illicit export of Fentanyl (keyword: illicit, as in not fentanyl used for legitimate medical purposes).
- xwolfi 7y ago
  Why isn't there a Fentanyl problem in China, Europe, Africa ? Are you SURE China has the ability to save america from under-regulation, expensive healthcare, for profit doctors etc ?
  - cj 7y ago
    I’m not sure what you’re implying. No, China controlling their fentanyl output won’t solve the problem in America. Making health insurance less expensive won’t solve the problem. Regulating more won’t solve the problem. Eliminating profit doctors won’t solve the problem. But all of them would -help- contribute toward improving the situation.
- dirtyid 7y ago
  China rescheduled fentanyl in response to Trump on May 1st. One month later: "Most fentanyl is now trafficked across US-Mexico border, not from China". Because Mexico is importing fentanyl precursors from China and taking over distribution like everyone predicted. Then a few days ago Virginia took down a multi-state drug ring and attributed 30kg of the fentanyl from Shanghai. The cynic will think China is using this as a bargaining chip, but fentanyl is simply too easy to smuggle. US is failing to detect imports, think how much harder it is for China, the worlds biggest exporter to manage on the export end. Import and manufacturing control is a dead end when it comes to opiates, the chemistry is too basic and the logistics too easy. Look at all the places where fentanyl isn't a problem for solutions. IMO, export control is the "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens" (apart from Vancouver) tier thinking.
natalyarostova 7y ago
I think he was referencing specifically clandestine Chinese labs that make illicit fentanyl, not those who need it for chronic pain as it's prescribed.
Retric 7y ago
Fentanyl is unusually deadly due to extreme concentration and ease of manufacture and transport. Other than exact dosage it’s very similar to other opioids. Some interesting data: https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/opioid-overdose-deaths-by-type-of-opioid/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/opioid-overdose-de...
NotSammyHagar 7y ago
Add lack of treatment, lack of criminal sanctions for companies pushing it, even after they learn of abuse.
xxxpupugo 7y ago
China itself doesn't have fentanyl issue to start with. Nor other Asian countries. Why is US singled out here? Can't US just ban it?
- will4274 7y ago
  The US has a porous border. You can't stop drugs from crossing if you can't stop people from crossing.
  - magicsmoke 7y ago
    Can't be any more porous than borders in Asia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Triangle_(Southeast_Asia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Triangle_(Southeast_Asi... China is right next to a major drug smuggling region. The jungles and mountains southwest of the country aren't exactly easy places to build border fences.
eljimmy 7y ago
Well said. Fentanyl is the government's new cheerleader for the war on drugs.
vonseel 7y ago
As another person said, I wasn't really referring to people who need it for pain and are taking it with legal prescriptions. I'm mad about all the people overdosing because their drugs were laced with Fentanyl without their knowledge - Mac Miller OD'd on fake oxycodone that contained Fentanyl[1]. Tom Petty and Prince also both died from fentanyl intoxication. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/us/mac-miller-death-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/us/mac-miller-death-arres...

by serf 7y ago

cj 7y ago

That line of thinking is also used to argue against gun control. “Don’t blame the guns” But whether or not you subscribe to that thinking, most people can agree that it would be great if China stepped in to do something to control the illicit export of Fentanyl (keyword: illicit, as in not fentanyl used for legitimate medical purposes).

xwolfi 7y ago
Why isn't there a Fentanyl problem in China, Europe, Africa ? Are you SURE China has the ability to save america from under-regulation, expensive healthcare, for profit doctors etc ?
- cj 7y ago
  I’m not sure what you’re implying. No, China controlling their fentanyl output won’t solve the problem in America. Making health insurance less expensive won’t solve the problem. Regulating more won’t solve the problem. Eliminating profit doctors won’t solve the problem. But all of them would -help- contribute toward improving the situation.
dirtyid 7y ago
China rescheduled fentanyl in response to Trump on May 1st. One month later: "Most fentanyl is now trafficked across US-Mexico border, not from China". Because Mexico is importing fentanyl precursors from China and taking over distribution like everyone predicted. Then a few days ago Virginia took down a multi-state drug ring and attributed 30kg of the fentanyl from Shanghai. The cynic will think China is using this as a bargaining chip, but fentanyl is simply too easy to smuggle. US is failing to detect imports, think how much harder it is for China, the worlds biggest exporter to manage on the export end. Import and manufacturing control is a dead end when it comes to opiates, the chemistry is too basic and the logistics too easy. Look at all the places where fentanyl isn't a problem for solutions. IMO, export control is the "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens" (apart from Vancouver) tier thinking.

natalyarostova 7y ago

I think he was referencing specifically clandestine Chinese labs that make illicit fentanyl, not those who need it for chronic pain as it's prescribed.

Retric 7y ago

Fentanyl is unusually deadly due to extreme concentration and ease of manufacture and transport. Other than exact dosage it’s very similar to other opioids. Some interesting data: https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/opioid-overdose-deaths-by-type-of-opioid/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/opioid-overdose-de...

NotSammyHagar 7y ago

Add lack of treatment, lack of criminal sanctions for companies pushing it, even after they learn of abuse.

xxxpupugo 7y ago

China itself doesn't have fentanyl issue to start with. Nor other Asian countries. Why is US singled out here? Can't US just ban it?

will4274 7y ago
The US has a porous border. You can't stop drugs from crossing if you can't stop people from crossing.
- magicsmoke 7y ago
  Can't be any more porous than borders in Asia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Triangle_(Southeast_Asia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Triangle_(Southeast_Asi... China is right next to a major drug smuggling region. The jungles and mountains southwest of the country aren't exactly easy places to build border fences.

eljimmy 7y ago

Well said. Fentanyl is the government's new cheerleader for the war on drugs.

vonseel 7y ago

As another person said, I wasn't really referring to people who need it for pain and are taking it with legal prescriptions. I'm mad about all the people overdosing because their drugs were laced with Fentanyl without their knowledge - Mac Miller OD'd on fake oxycodone that contained Fentanyl[1]. Tom Petty and Prince also both died from fentanyl intoxication. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/us/mac-miller-death-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/us/mac-miller-death-arres...