5 ms·

This. Imagine if you said the same thing with taxes. "Gee, why do I have to pay taxes differently in every country?" Well, because that's what you have to do if

This. Imagine if you said the same thing with taxes. "Gee, why do I have to pay taxes differently in every country?" Well, because that's what you have to do if you want to do business there. You're not forced to do anything in here if you don't want to; if the opportunity is worthy, others will take your place. Same with the laws, especially those that remove agency from the users.

mjevans 7y ago
The tax problem could be solved by requiring a shipping manifest, including declared value, and applying taxes at the shipping carrier level. This would make more sense anyway since the delivery carriers have to establish a physical presence.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  My machine tooling comes in little padded envelopes with standardized shipping labels that have the customs declaration info. They all say "phone accessories". If the origin country is not willing to track it back to the source and do enforcement for you and you don't want to categorically block or have invasive monitoring everything from that country then it's a fool's errand. The same goes for websites.
- chroma 7y ago
  It's absurdly easy to get around these laws. For example: I had a motherboard shipped from China a few months ago. The shipper lied on manifest and claimed he was sending the motherboard back to me after repairing it. Neither the US government nor China got any duties or taxes on that shipment. Lying on manifests also lets people import quasi-legal things such as cell phone jammers. The manifest will usually say something like "laser pointer" or "wifi repeater".
wolco 7y ago
But you don't. If I am from South Africa and I buy a US product from a smaller website I don't pay South Africa sales taxes. If I buy from Amazon I would because they have offices or a physical presence. When you buy a product from a website hosted/incorporated in a different country you are literally going into another country and buying a product under their laws. Your local taxes (national/stat wide/city wide) shouldn't matter and don't. The same should apply for eu privacy law.
- noodlesUK 7y ago
  If this is your experience buying things internationally from smaller websites, that surprises me greatly. When I purchase items from US retailers in European countries, before the item arrives, I get a little slip to pay the duties on the item. If I don’t pay, the item doesn’t arrive.
  - wolco 7y ago
    Duty is imposed at the country level. In my country things we make have additional duty but products we don't are not. I would assume importing milk might trigger 50% duty but receiving a dnakit from 23andme wouldn't.
    - noodlesUK 7y ago
      My experience has been that I need to pay VAT, as well as any specific duties for the category of item I’m bringing in. This can be a lot, as VAT is currently 20%. I’m okay with it though. Any item I buy locally have VAT, and I think it’s unfair if you don’t charge that on imports. It’s the beauty of a VAT that it won’t hurt production if you’re reselling the goods anyway.
    - diffeomorphism 7y ago
      No, you and the sellers are just committing tax fraud at a small enough level that nobody cares: https://www.sars.gov.za/ClientSegments/Customs-Excise/DutiesTaxes/Pages/Duties-and-Taxes-for-Importers-.aspx https://www.sars.gov.za/ClientSegments/Customs-Excise/Duties... Amazon is too large to get away with that and hence charges you sales tax. The "small shops" can get away with it, but it is still illegal.
- ubercow13 7y ago
  You don’t pay US sales tax, though. You should probably be paying South Africa sales tax? You would have to if importing into the U.K. at least
  - tempestn 7y ago

mjevans 7y ago

The tax problem could be solved by requiring a shipping manifest, including declared value, and applying taxes at the shipping carrier level. This would make more sense anyway since the delivery carriers have to establish a physical presence.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
My machine tooling comes in little padded envelopes with standardized shipping labels that have the customs declaration info. They all say "phone accessories". If the origin country is not willing to track it back to the source and do enforcement for you and you don't want to categorically block or have invasive monitoring everything from that country then it's a fool's errand. The same goes for websites.
chroma 7y ago
It's absurdly easy to get around these laws. For example: I had a motherboard shipped from China a few months ago. The shipper lied on manifest and claimed he was sending the motherboard back to me after repairing it. Neither the US government nor China got any duties or taxes on that shipment. Lying on manifests also lets people import quasi-legal things such as cell phone jammers. The manifest will usually say something like "laser pointer" or "wifi repeater".

wolco 7y ago

But you don't. If I am from South Africa and I buy a US product from a smaller website I don't pay South Africa sales taxes. If I buy from Amazon I would because they have offices or a physical presence. When you buy a product from a website hosted/incorporated in a different country you are literally going into another country and buying a product under their laws. Your local taxes (national/stat wide/city wide) shouldn't matter and don't. The same should apply for eu privacy law.

noodlesUK 7y ago
If this is your experience buying things internationally from smaller websites, that surprises me greatly. When I purchase items from US retailers in European countries, before the item arrives, I get a little slip to pay the duties on the item. If I don’t pay, the item doesn’t arrive.
- wolco 7y ago
  Duty is imposed at the country level. In my country things we make have additional duty but products we don't are not. I would assume importing milk might trigger 50% duty but receiving a dnakit from 23andme wouldn't.
  - noodlesUK 7y ago
    My experience has been that I need to pay VAT, as well as any specific duties for the category of item I’m bringing in. This can be a lot, as VAT is currently 20%. I’m okay with it though. Any item I buy locally have VAT, and I think it’s unfair if you don’t charge that on imports. It’s the beauty of a VAT that it won’t hurt production if you’re reselling the goods anyway.
  - diffeomorphism 7y ago
    No, you and the sellers are just committing tax fraud at a small enough level that nobody cares: https://www.sars.gov.za/ClientSegments/Customs-Excise/DutiesTaxes/Pages/Duties-and-Taxes-for-Importers-.aspx https://www.sars.gov.za/ClientSegments/Customs-Excise/Duties... Amazon is too large to get away with that and hence charges you sales tax. The "small shops" can get away with it, but it is still illegal.
ubercow13 7y ago
You don’t pay US sales tax, though. You should probably be paying South Africa sales tax? You would have to if importing into the U.K. at least
- tempestn 7y ago