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Yeah, because a phone imaged by an entity controlled by the CCP is better than a phone without Google or Apple. I'm no supporter of either Apple or Goog, but a

Yeah, because a phone imaged by an entity controlled by the CCP is better than a phone without Google or Apple. I'm no supporter of either Apple or Goog, but applauding a mass spyware device from the CCP would be satire a couple years ago. It's not like they have a track record of subverting phones for targeted genocide or anything[1] [1] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/09/massive_iphone_.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/09/massive_iphon...

amaccuish 7y ago
Do you have any evidence of that?
- missosoup 7y ago
  https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/31/china-google-iphone-uyghur/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/31/china-google-iphone-uyghur... https://www.volexity.com/blog/2019/09/02/digital-crackdown-large-scale-surveillance-and-exploitation-of-uyghurs/ https://www.volexity.com/blog/2019/09/02/digital-crackdown-l... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/27/the-world-knows-what-is-happening-to-the-uighurs-why-has-it-been-so-slow-to-act https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/27/the-world-know... https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/09/06/apple-hints-china-behind-billion-device-iphone-hack-that-google-reported/#2cc8f00512c9 https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/09/06/apple-h...
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    So, no, then? There's nothing in any of these links to support the claim that there is "CCP spyware" on the phones. In fact at least two of your articles are about them putting spyware on iPhones, which undercuts your point further.
  - amaccuish 7y ago
    So does any of that have to do with Huawei? Or is it just an OS that Huawei happens to use was included in an indiscriminate attack?
    - vezycash 7y ago
      I remember talks here on HN about Chinese made IOT devices phoning home to servers in China. There have also been discussion on HN about Huawei's telecom equipment being backdoored or simply rigged to siphon information back to china.
      - amaccuish 7y ago
        If this were the case, why do the vast majority of mobile phone networks around the world continue to use and even buy more from Huawei?
        president 7y ago
        Naiveté and a bit of corruption and/or blackmail. More people need to watch this recent interview with a former CCP insider on the Chinese threat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cwXifDaCjE&t=3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cwXifDaCjE&t=3s.
      - opencl 7y ago
        Lots of people talking about Huawei backdoors, none providing credible evidence of them actually existing. They have their share of security vulnerabilities but no worse than competitors such as Cisco[1]. Random Chinese made IOT devices phoning home to servers in China is definitely a thing, but has nothing to do with Huawei. [1] https://www.techrepublic.com/article/evidence-of-backdoors-in-huawei-equipment-collapse-under-light-scrutiny/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/evidence-of-backdoors-i...
      - trakout 7y ago
        What kind of data is being sent? Devices that need to legitimately phone home for something tend to do so by requesting servers within or close to the country they were developed in. Imagine people getting riled up at the thought of Apple phoning home to a US-based NTP server..
  - justicezyx 7y ago
    I also feel amused that huawei smart phone are quite popular, and you are only able to find claims from mainstream media outlets instead of users with Huawei phone, which have been proven to lack the ability to verify tech details...
    - amaccuish 7y ago
      > which have been proven to lack the ability to verify tech details Sorry are you saying that Huawei users are thick or something? (If you have evidence of Huawei phones having software preinstalled that uploads a user's whatsapp conversations and whatnot to some IP then be my guest! But I don't think you do...)
kick 7y ago
Better the devil who can't send armed forces to your doorstep.
emptyfile 7y ago
Your comment would have been satire on this website a couple of years ago. Did you forget that its you, americans, who spy on the whole world? Did you think the rest of us forgot?
- missosoup 7y ago
  I'm not american. I don't even support america. I'm just anti-genocide. Sorry if that bothers you.
  - cthaeh 7y ago
    Detention is not genocide. Stop trivializing the use of the word genocide.
    - ashes-of-sol 7y ago
      China has put at least a million, if not more, of Uyghur people into concentration camps. That is not detention, it is how you go about eradicating a people
    - dx87 7y ago
      Genocide isn't just murdering people, it's any organized effort to remove people or their culture. So throwing people in jail until they give up their beliefs is genocide. You should learn the definition before you try and tell people what they can't say. EDIT: For anyone downvoting me, here's what the UN considers genocide: The United Nations Genocide Convention, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such" including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part", preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group.
      - lmpostor 7y ago
        A lot of judgement on a semantic that is generally accepted to be the exact opposite of what you are declaring. First given the context of the root of the word "cide", patricide, regicide, matricide, a majority of people still believe that the word predicates physical/biological harm in the form of death. If you want to expand the definition, fine but it isn't truth or the majority. If anything you should find a better word.
squarefoot 7y ago
"Yeah, because a phone imaged by an entity controlled by the CCP is better than a phone without Google or Apple." A phone without all of them would be the best deal but, as an European, I'm 100% sure that assuming all three of them are spying on people using their phones, currently the Chinese are the least likely to give any data about me to my government.
xwolfi 7y ago
Dude the US spied on the undersea fiber to steal contract from companies in my (democratic) country. Say what you want about the chinese, but they're not the only ones playing that game.
- bad_user 7y ago
  Whataboutism
  - sixothree 7y ago
    To be fair, it's an important aspect of security discussions.
    - bad_user 7y ago
      There's nothing interesting here. China is not a liberal democracy and is guilty of many human rights violations. If you want to use Huawei devices, go ahead, it's a personal choice, but preferring Chinese devices for security or privacy reasons is just plain stupid. And the parent's argument is textbook whataboutism. Yes, the US has active spying agencies. Irrelevant for the topic being discussed.
      - throwaway8743 7y ago
        So then what’s the difference between “whataboutism” and “perspective?” To me, OP put things in perspective.
      - doorslammer 7y ago
        "guilty of many human rights violation" the history excludes any other country but China.. is that what you meant?
- truculent 7y ago
  > but they're not the only ones playing that game. The original comment is literally comparing Huawei favouably to US counterparts, though
chimi 7y ago
All phones are mass spyware devices. Do you want someone who has control over your life, the ability to imprison you, or physically come to your house to know everything about you... Or someone who is kept completely away from you by those sworn to protect you? Google and Apple and etc are controlled by the American government. The one who can actually do something to you. The CCP can't do anything to me. Try getting to me. The USA has power over me. The CCP has zero power in my life. So yes, I would prefer my spyware to be sending my info to someone with zero capability to put it to use.

amaccuish 7y ago

Do you have any evidence of that?

missosoup 7y ago
https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/31/china-google-iphone-uyghur/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/31/china-google-iphone-uyghur... https://www.volexity.com/blog/2019/09/02/digital-crackdown-large-scale-surveillance-and-exploitation-of-uyghurs/ https://www.volexity.com/blog/2019/09/02/digital-crackdown-l... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/27/the-world-knows-what-is-happening-to-the-uighurs-why-has-it-been-so-slow-to-act https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/27/the-world-know... https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/09/06/apple-hints-china-behind-billion-device-iphone-hack-that-google-reported/#2cc8f00512c9 https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/09/06/apple-h...
- Someone1234 7y ago
  So, no, then? There's nothing in any of these links to support the claim that there is "CCP spyware" on the phones. In fact at least two of your articles are about them putting spyware on iPhones, which undercuts your point further.
- amaccuish 7y ago
  So does any of that have to do with Huawei? Or is it just an OS that Huawei happens to use was included in an indiscriminate attack?
  - vezycash 7y ago
    I remember talks here on HN about Chinese made IOT devices phoning home to servers in China. There have also been discussion on HN about Huawei's telecom equipment being backdoored or simply rigged to siphon information back to china.
    - amaccuish 7y ago
      If this were the case, why do the vast majority of mobile phone networks around the world continue to use and even buy more from Huawei?
      - president 7y ago
        Naiveté and a bit of corruption and/or blackmail. More people need to watch this recent interview with a former CCP insider on the Chinese threat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cwXifDaCjE&t=3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cwXifDaCjE&t=3s.
    - opencl 7y ago
      Lots of people talking about Huawei backdoors, none providing credible evidence of them actually existing. They have their share of security vulnerabilities but no worse than competitors such as Cisco[1]. Random Chinese made IOT devices phoning home to servers in China is definitely a thing, but has nothing to do with Huawei. [1] https://www.techrepublic.com/article/evidence-of-backdoors-in-huawei-equipment-collapse-under-light-scrutiny/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/evidence-of-backdoors-i...
    - trakout 7y ago
      What kind of data is being sent? Devices that need to legitimately phone home for something tend to do so by requesting servers within or close to the country they were developed in. Imagine people getting riled up at the thought of Apple phoning home to a US-based NTP server..
- justicezyx 7y ago
  I also feel amused that huawei smart phone are quite popular, and you are only able to find claims from mainstream media outlets instead of users with Huawei phone, which have been proven to lack the ability to verify tech details...
  - amaccuish 7y ago
    > which have been proven to lack the ability to verify tech details Sorry are you saying that Huawei users are thick or something? (If you have evidence of Huawei phones having software preinstalled that uploads a user's whatsapp conversations and whatnot to some IP then be my guest! But I don't think you do...)

kick 7y ago

Better the devil who can't send armed forces to your doorstep.

emptyfile 7y ago

Your comment would have been satire on this website a couple of years ago. Did you forget that its you, americans, who spy on the whole world? Did you think the rest of us forgot?

missosoup 7y ago
I'm not american. I don't even support america. I'm just anti-genocide. Sorry if that bothers you.
- cthaeh 7y ago
  Detention is not genocide. Stop trivializing the use of the word genocide.
  - ashes-of-sol 7y ago
    China has put at least a million, if not more, of Uyghur people into concentration camps. That is not detention, it is how you go about eradicating a people
  - dx87 7y ago
    Genocide isn't just murdering people, it's any organized effort to remove people or their culture. So throwing people in jail until they give up their beliefs is genocide. You should learn the definition before you try and tell people what they can't say. EDIT: For anyone downvoting me, here's what the UN considers genocide: The United Nations Genocide Convention, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such" including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part", preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group.
    - lmpostor 7y ago
      A lot of judgement on a semantic that is generally accepted to be the exact opposite of what you are declaring. First given the context of the root of the word "cide", patricide, regicide, matricide, a majority of people still believe that the word predicates physical/biological harm in the form of death. If you want to expand the definition, fine but it isn't truth or the majority. If anything you should find a better word.

squarefoot 7y ago

"Yeah, because a phone imaged by an entity controlled by the CCP is better than a phone without Google or Apple." A phone without all of them would be the best deal but, as an European, I'm 100% sure that assuming all three of them are spying on people using their phones, currently the Chinese are the least likely to give any data about me to my government.

xwolfi 7y ago

Dude the US spied on the undersea fiber to steal contract from companies in my (democratic) country. Say what you want about the chinese, but they're not the only ones playing that game.

bad_user 7y ago
Whataboutism
- sixothree 7y ago
  To be fair, it's an important aspect of security discussions.
  - bad_user 7y ago
    There's nothing interesting here. China is not a liberal democracy and is guilty of many human rights violations. If you want to use Huawei devices, go ahead, it's a personal choice, but preferring Chinese devices for security or privacy reasons is just plain stupid. And the parent's argument is textbook whataboutism. Yes, the US has active spying agencies. Irrelevant for the topic being discussed.
    - throwaway8743 7y ago
      So then what’s the difference between “whataboutism” and “perspective?” To me, OP put things in perspective.
    - doorslammer 7y ago
      "guilty of many human rights violation" the history excludes any other country but China.. is that what you meant?
truculent 7y ago
> but they're not the only ones playing that game. The original comment is literally comparing Huawei favouably to US counterparts, though

chimi 7y ago

All phones are mass spyware devices. Do you want someone who has control over your life, the ability to imprison you, or physically come to your house to know everything about you... Or someone who is kept completely away from you by those sworn to protect you? Google and Apple and etc are controlled by the American government. The one who can actually do something to you. The CCP can't do anything to me. Try getting to me. The USA has power over me. The CCP has zero power in my life. So yes, I would prefer my spyware to be sending my info to someone with zero capability to put it to use.