4 ms·

If he was not ugly would you consider his behaviour creeping or mild flirtatiousness? There was a whole Justin Bieber creeping his followers, where no one seem

If he was not ugly would you consider his behaviour creeping or mild flirtatiousness? There was a whole Justin Bieber creeping his followers, where no one seemed to complain. I'm pretty sure if someone said "No" please stop doing then RMS would stop. Are there cases where he didn't? If so .. I take back my words. Autistic types or Asperger types whatever you want to call it ... take things very literally. They are visual-oriented and big-picture thinkers. This affects both men and women btw. Verbal thinking is not their strong suit. Body language reading is not their strong suit. Sarcasm and mean communication is not their strong suit. They are blunt and straightforward to a fault. Autistic types will be Autistic even in Rome. This almost seems like Gallelio being house arrested because the feminist popes couldn't comprehend him. If the average girl expects psychic powers of body language reading and reading the room before you utter a word ... that's just expecting men to behave like women. It's never going to happen.

eesmith 7y ago
Why have whisper network, as one of the quotes I mentioned, if being "fat and ugly" is all that's needed to recognize a creep? I do not think Stallman is ugly, so I don't know why that's even an issue. He's had at least one girlfriend, so it's not like his physical attributes are a universal turn-off. Can you find women writing they don't like him because he's fat and ugly? Because finding accounts of women who dislike his creepy sexual advances is not hard. Do not use 'Autistic types or Asperger types' as a "boys will be boys" type excuse. I'll quote an autistic person, at https://twitter.com/HickeyWriter/status/1172674056828661764 https://twitter.com/HickeyWriter/status/1172674056828661764 > I'm autistic. I am not good at social cues. I have, in my time, held quite a few shitty, offensive opinions. But when people have pointed out how awful those opinions are to me, I've thought "Oh shit, they're right," apologised, and changed my opinions. Or from another autistic person, at https://twitter.com/mykola/status/1172685579424817152 https://twitter.com/mykola/status/1172685579424817152 : > Being autistic doesn't make you an asshole, certainly not a pedophile. It mostly makes you a little weird. Your argument, if it makes any sense, means that Stallman should have been kicked out long ago because he was being surrounded by enablers and yes-men who didn't provide the feedback he needed for his position. Which, as you likely know, is one of the comments made by the linked-to page: > I was around for most of the 90s, and I can confirm the unfortunate reality that RMS’s behavior was a concern at the time, and that this protection [by Minsky and the AI Lab] was itself part of the problem. He was never held to account; he was himself coddled in his own lower-grade misbehavior and mistreatment of women. He made the place uncomfortable for a lot of people, and especially women. How can you meaningfully write "Justin Bieber creeping his followers" if you think "creeping" means "fat and ugly"? And, "the feminist popes" ... WTF?!
- zozbot234 7y ago
  > Why have whisper network, as one of the quotes I mentioned, if being "fat and ugly" is all that's needed to recognize a creep? You think people aren't doing it all the time? Gossiping around folks, calling them fat and ugly behind their back? "Creep" is just the next step in the bullying ladder. (Of course, RMS hasn't exactly made things hard for his bullies. But let's not pretend that this sort of dynamic never happens in such cases.)
  - foobar_ 7y ago
    There was also this "hot inmate" meme. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Meeks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Meeks Speaks volumes in how pretty people are treated vs how fat and ugly people are treated.
    - eesmith 7y ago
      Or, Jethro Tull's "Fat Man": Don't want to be a fat man People would think that I was just good fun, man Would rather be a thin man I am so glad to go on being one, man Too much to carry around with you No chance of finding a woman, who Will love you in the morning and all the nighttime too Don't want to be a fat man Have not the patience to ignore all that Hate to admit to myself I thought my problems came from being fat But there's no evidence that "fat and ugly" = "creep".
  - eesmith 7y ago
    If '"Creep" is just the next step in the bullying ladder' then there should be far more examples of women calling Stallman 'fat and ugly' than there are of calling him a creep. What limited examples I found of calling Stallman 'fat' appear to come from males who also use, eg, racial or ethnic slurs against him. The observed evidence therefore is not that there is a single ladder, but that there are multiple ladders, and "creep" is a different ladder than "fat" is a different ladder than "ugly". Let's also not pretend that Stallman didn't have a decades long history of behavior which most other people of similar weight and beauty don't have.
- 7y ago

eesmith 7y ago

Why have whisper network, as one of the quotes I mentioned, if being "fat and ugly" is all that's needed to recognize a creep? I do not think Stallman is ugly, so I don't know why that's even an issue. He's had at least one girlfriend, so it's not like his physical attributes are a universal turn-off. Can you find women writing they don't like him because he's fat and ugly? Because finding accounts of women who dislike his creepy sexual advances is not hard. Do not use 'Autistic types or Asperger types' as a "boys will be boys" type excuse. I'll quote an autistic person, at https://twitter.com/HickeyWriter/status/1172674056828661764 https://twitter.com/HickeyWriter/status/1172674056828661764 > I'm autistic. I am not good at social cues. I have, in my time, held quite a few shitty, offensive opinions. But when people have pointed out how awful those opinions are to me, I've thought "Oh shit, they're right," apologised, and changed my opinions. Or from another autistic person, at https://twitter.com/mykola/status/1172685579424817152 https://twitter.com/mykola/status/1172685579424817152 : > Being autistic doesn't make you an asshole, certainly not a pedophile. It mostly makes you a little weird. Your argument, if it makes any sense, means that Stallman should have been kicked out long ago because he was being surrounded by enablers and yes-men who didn't provide the feedback he needed for his position. Which, as you likely know, is one of the comments made by the linked-to page: > I was around for most of the 90s, and I can confirm the unfortunate reality that RMS’s behavior was a concern at the time, and that this protection [by Minsky and the AI Lab] was itself part of the problem. He was never held to account; he was himself coddled in his own lower-grade misbehavior and mistreatment of women. He made the place uncomfortable for a lot of people, and especially women. How can you meaningfully write "Justin Bieber creeping his followers" if you think "creeping" means "fat and ugly"? And, "the feminist popes" ... WTF?!

zozbot234 7y ago
> Why have whisper network, as one of the quotes I mentioned, if being "fat and ugly" is all that's needed to recognize a creep? You think people aren't doing it all the time? Gossiping around folks, calling them fat and ugly behind their back? "Creep" is just the next step in the bullying ladder. (Of course, RMS hasn't exactly made things hard for his bullies. But let's not pretend that this sort of dynamic never happens in such cases.)
- foobar_ 7y ago
  There was also this "hot inmate" meme. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Meeks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Meeks Speaks volumes in how pretty people are treated vs how fat and ugly people are treated.
  - eesmith 7y ago
    Or, Jethro Tull's "Fat Man": Don't want to be a fat man People would think that I was just good fun, man Would rather be a thin man I am so glad to go on being one, man Too much to carry around with you No chance of finding a woman, who Will love you in the morning and all the nighttime too Don't want to be a fat man Have not the patience to ignore all that Hate to admit to myself I thought my problems came from being fat But there's no evidence that "fat and ugly" = "creep".
- eesmith 7y ago
  If '"Creep" is just the next step in the bullying ladder' then there should be far more examples of women calling Stallman 'fat and ugly' than there are of calling him a creep. What limited examples I found of calling Stallman 'fat' appear to come from males who also use, eg, racial or ethnic slurs against him. The observed evidence therefore is not that there is a single ladder, but that there are multiple ladders, and "creep" is a different ladder than "fat" is a different ladder than "ugly". Let's also not pretend that Stallman didn't have a decades long history of behavior which most other people of similar weight and beauty don't have.
7y ago