4 ms·

and how many model 3s does it take to shatter a metal roof? im not discounting that the claim is impressive, but from a purely safety point of view, wouldnt you

and how many model 3s does it take to shatter a metal roof? im not discounting that the claim is impressive, but from a purely safety point of view, wouldnt you expect even more significant forces on this thing in a crash?

SEJeff 7y ago
Lots of vehicles have less crush strength than the Model 3, and most of them don't have glass roofs. If you recall... the NTHSA testing of the Model S literally broke their machine. The NTHSA said the Model S had the best rollover test (top impact from their machine trying to crush it) of anything they've ever tested. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/videos/a5238/watch-the-tesla-model-s-break-the-nhtsa-crash-test-scale/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/videos/a5238/watch-the... To really answer your question, I've arbitrarily picked a few common vehicles with metal roofs. The IIHS says the Civic roof withstands 13,195lbs of force: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/honda/civic-2-door-coupe/2019#roof-strength https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/honda/civic-2-door-coup... A Subaru Outback: 18,533lbs of roof strength: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/subaru/outback-4-door-wagon/2019#roof-strength https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/subaru/outback-4-door-w... A BMW 3 series has roughly the same roof strength as a Model 3: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/bmw/3-series-4-door-sedan/2019#roof-strength https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/bmw/3-series-4-door-sed... An Audi A5 is only 16,327lbs of roof strength: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/audi/a5-coupe-2-door-coupe/2019#roof-strength https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/audi/a5-coupe-2-door-co... You get the idea!
- baybal2 7y ago
  One moment you missed. Electric cars are very heavy, and their centres of mass tend to be right below the cabin. Having very strong pillars is pretty much a prerequisite for surviving a rollover in an EV.
  - SEJeff 7y ago
    Most people tell me the BMW 330i is very comparable to a Model 3, and its curb weight is 3,582 to 3,764 lbs (per BMW). The Model 3's curb weight is 3,627 to 4,072 lbs (per Tesla). That isn't as big of a difference as I'd have expected.
    - thetinguy 7y ago
      Engines and transmissions are also heavy.
  - maxerickson 7y ago
    The Model 3 is ~25% heavier than Ford Fusion.
  - moduspol 7y ago
    They're not all that heavy any more. The Tesla Model 3 is 3552-4072 lbs, while the new Jeep Wrangler (JL) is 3955-4455 lbs.
    - baybal2 7y ago
      Suzuki Mehran dry mass is around 550kg, and it's made of steel, not aluminium. A more spacious Alto that uses some aluminium and magnesium is around 650kg. Talking about "not-so-heavy" cars...
      - DuskStar 7y ago
        > Suzuki Mehran dry mass is around 550kg That's a Pakistan-only car with no safety features [0]. (From the Wikipedia description, "a car with everything manually operated, and with no safety features. The car lacks airbags, ABS, rear window defogger, side air conditioner vents, seat belt reminder and even rear seat belts.") So yes, it's light. You'll also immediately die in a collision, but you get what you pay for I suppose. (The Alto is sold more broadly, but it's still obsolete) Not exactly comparing like to like. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Mehran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Mehran
    - bradlys 7y ago
      I think it's more of a "relative" to certain cars. I could compare it to a miata that is ~2300lbs. But that's not really relevant then, is it? A Jeep Wrangler is basically a truck - so I don't think that's a good comparison. Compared to other "compact executive cars" (as its class states) it's close to the competition.
      - moduspol 7y ago
        Well, I mention it only because I get the comment a lot and my last car was a (two door) Wrangler. You could compare it to trucks, but it's just not perceived as a particularly heavy vehicle even relative to normal cars. The vibe I've got from talking to people is that they think the Model 3 (or Teslas in general) are significantly heavy relative to normal consumer vehicles. It's pretty surprising to them that even a 2 door Jeep Wrangler is actually heavier.

SEJeff 7y ago

Lots of vehicles have less crush strength than the Model 3, and most of them don't have glass roofs. If you recall... the NTHSA testing of the Model S literally broke their machine. The NTHSA said the Model S had the best rollover test (top impact from their machine trying to crush it) of anything they've ever tested. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/videos/a5238/watch-the-tesla-model-s-break-the-nhtsa-crash-test-scale/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/videos/a5238/watch-the... To really answer your question, I've arbitrarily picked a few common vehicles with metal roofs. The IIHS says the Civic roof withstands 13,195lbs of force: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/honda/civic-2-door-coupe/2019#roof-strength https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/honda/civic-2-door-coup... A Subaru Outback: 18,533lbs of roof strength: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/subaru/outback-4-door-wagon/2019#roof-strength https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/subaru/outback-4-door-w... A BMW 3 series has roughly the same roof strength as a Model 3: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/bmw/3-series-4-door-sedan/2019#roof-strength https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/bmw/3-series-4-door-sed... An Audi A5 is only 16,327lbs of roof strength: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/audi/a5-coupe-2-door-coupe/2019#roof-strength https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/audi/a5-coupe-2-door-co... You get the idea!

baybal2 7y ago
One moment you missed. Electric cars are very heavy, and their centres of mass tend to be right below the cabin. Having very strong pillars is pretty much a prerequisite for surviving a rollover in an EV.
- SEJeff 7y ago
  Most people tell me the BMW 330i is very comparable to a Model 3, and its curb weight is 3,582 to 3,764 lbs (per BMW). The Model 3's curb weight is 3,627 to 4,072 lbs (per Tesla). That isn't as big of a difference as I'd have expected.
  - thetinguy 7y ago
    Engines and transmissions are also heavy.
- maxerickson 7y ago
  The Model 3 is ~25% heavier than Ford Fusion.
- moduspol 7y ago
  They're not all that heavy any more. The Tesla Model 3 is 3552-4072 lbs, while the new Jeep Wrangler (JL) is 3955-4455 lbs.
  - baybal2 7y ago
    Suzuki Mehran dry mass is around 550kg, and it's made of steel, not aluminium. A more spacious Alto that uses some aluminium and magnesium is around 650kg. Talking about "not-so-heavy" cars...
    - DuskStar 7y ago
      > Suzuki Mehran dry mass is around 550kg That's a Pakistan-only car with no safety features [0]. (From the Wikipedia description, "a car with everything manually operated, and with no safety features. The car lacks airbags, ABS, rear window defogger, side air conditioner vents, seat belt reminder and even rear seat belts.") So yes, it's light. You'll also immediately die in a collision, but you get what you pay for I suppose. (The Alto is sold more broadly, but it's still obsolete) Not exactly comparing like to like. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Mehran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Mehran
  - bradlys 7y ago
    I think it's more of a "relative" to certain cars. I could compare it to a miata that is ~2300lbs. But that's not really relevant then, is it? A Jeep Wrangler is basically a truck - so I don't think that's a good comparison. Compared to other "compact executive cars" (as its class states) it's close to the competition.
    - moduspol 7y ago
      Well, I mention it only because I get the comment a lot and my last car was a (two door) Wrangler. You could compare it to trucks, but it's just not perceived as a particularly heavy vehicle even relative to normal cars. The vibe I've got from talking to people is that they think the Model 3 (or Teslas in general) are significantly heavy relative to normal consumer vehicles. It's pretty surprising to them that even a 2 door Jeep Wrangler is actually heavier.