5 ms·

I googled the quote, and based on the context here [0], it seems like the demographic being referred to is non-male. What's wrong with reviewing hiring process

by human20190310 7y ago

I googled the quote, and based on the context here [0], it seems like the demographic being referred to is non-male. What's wrong with reviewing hiring processes to determine if they're excluding a demographic that contains individuals who would have done well in the role? [0] https://cate.blog/2019/05/15/addressing-hiring-gaps-through-user-research/ https://cate.blog/2019/05/15/addressing-hiring-gaps-through-... EDIT: The tl;dr for the article is that they're doing research on "how the people you didn’t hire would have done".

kd3 7y ago
Read all the way to the end.
- human20190310 7y ago
  I did. It's a call for women and non-binary people to participate in a survey, not get a job. They're trying to assess the people that are under-represented in their hiring, not hire them preferentially.
notzuck 7y ago
There's nothing wrong with reviewing your hiring processes to audit for equality. Outright saying that you attract a demographic that you DO NOT WANT TO HIRE FROM is a whole different level of problem. Might as well say no blacks and irish. That whole quote could be associated with various different ethnic groups over the years depending on the time it was written. in 2019, that type of quote should not exist.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > Outright saying that you attract a demographic that you DO NOT WANT TO HIRE FROM is a whole different level of problem. That's not what was said. Nothing in that quote implies "we will hire zero men".
  - notzuck 7y ago
    She literally said she gets applications from a demographic that she doesn't want to hire from.... am I missing something here? You can't just say I have too many Asians and therefore would prefer to have my applicants not be Asian.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      If she literally says that, please quote it.
      - notzuck 7y ago
        "we realized that the demographics of people we attract to apply are not inline with the demographics of the people we hope to hire." I already quoted....
        human20190310 7y ago
        I'm assuming "the demographics of the people we hope to hire" means demographics that match the population at large. They should have been more clear about what that meant. Nevertheless, if the demographic profile of their hires doesn't correspond to the demographics of the population they're embedded in, it's reasonable to question whether 1) they're unfairly excluding people and 2) the extent to which the people they're excluding could have contributed.
        notzuck 7y ago
        I'm not sure what % of the population or wordpress user population is trans. Do we need to match the population in the first place? What if trans people just don't want to work for Automattic?
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        > What if trans people just don't want to work for Automattic? That's why they're doing the survey? To find out if that's true, and if so, why it's true? > Do we need to match the population in the first place? If trans folks have statistically similar job abilities to non-trans folks, a disparity in hiring may indicate some other discriminatory / disparate factors that can be fixed. They might even be entirely unintentional. That's why you do the research.

kd3 7y ago

Read all the way to the end.

human20190310 7y ago
I did. It's a call for women and non-binary people to participate in a survey, not get a job. They're trying to assess the people that are under-represented in their hiring, not hire them preferentially.

notzuck 7y ago

There's nothing wrong with reviewing your hiring processes to audit for equality. Outright saying that you attract a demographic that you DO NOT WANT TO HIRE FROM is a whole different level of problem. Might as well say no blacks and irish. That whole quote could be associated with various different ethnic groups over the years depending on the time it was written. in 2019, that type of quote should not exist.

ceejayoz 7y ago
> Outright saying that you attract a demographic that you DO NOT WANT TO HIRE FROM is a whole different level of problem. That's not what was said. Nothing in that quote implies "we will hire zero men".
- notzuck 7y ago
  She literally said she gets applications from a demographic that she doesn't want to hire from.... am I missing something here? You can't just say I have too many Asians and therefore would prefer to have my applicants not be Asian.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    If she literally says that, please quote it.
    - notzuck 7y ago
      "we realized that the demographics of people we attract to apply are not inline with the demographics of the people we hope to hire." I already quoted....
      - human20190310 7y ago
        I'm assuming "the demographics of the people we hope to hire" means demographics that match the population at large. They should have been more clear about what that meant. Nevertheless, if the demographic profile of their hires doesn't correspond to the demographics of the population they're embedded in, it's reasonable to question whether 1) they're unfairly excluding people and 2) the extent to which the people they're excluding could have contributed.
        notzuck 7y ago
        I'm not sure what % of the population or wordpress user population is trans. Do we need to match the population in the first place? What if trans people just don't want to work for Automattic?
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        > What if trans people just don't want to work for Automattic? That's why they're doing the survey? To find out if that's true, and if so, why it's true? > Do we need to match the population in the first place? If trans folks have statistically similar job abilities to non-trans folks, a disparity in hiring may indicate some other discriminatory / disparate factors that can be fixed. They might even be entirely unintentional. That's why you do the research.