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Airbnb Announces Intention to Become a Publicly-Traded Company During 2020

159 points by tempsy 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
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tracer4201 7y ago
Tangential to the topic, but does AirBnB operate under any regulations? When I was in Seattle, my apartment building ended up adding an explicit clause in the lease saying you couldn’t rent a property and turn it around into an AirBnB or any kind of room share for temporary or short term stays. The legal framework wasn’t there (this is 2016 I’m describing), and so I wonder why go public now. Get a more solid footing and then lobby for regulation to drown out other start ups?
- jfk13 7y ago
  Perhaps people are keen to cash in before regulation catches up with them more widely?
  - blueadept111 7y ago
    I live in Vancouver (BC) and over here Airbnb worked with city to create and enforce regulation for short term rentals (ie, requiring a license to operate and then actually policing and enforcing the regulations). I think its working out well an expect to see this model being applied in other cities as well.
    - jfk13 7y ago
      Though perhaps it's not always working perfectly... https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/2019/09/18/airbnb-condo-breaking-rules-river-district-vancouver/ https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/2019/09/18/airbnb-condo-b...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- tempsy 7y ago
  A lot of cities explicitly ban short term AirBnBs of less than 30 days, unless you as the owner are staying there as well. HOAs can be more strict on top of whatever existing city regulations exist.
  - greenyoda 7y ago
    NYC, one of Airbnb's biggest markets, has been cracking down hard on illegal short-term rentals. Bloomberg has an article today about it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21015849 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21015849
- gamblor956 7y ago
  AirBnBs are generally subject to hoteling regulations in every market that has them. AirBnB, as the booking agent for the hosts, doesn't get to ignore the regulations just because the host is liable for any violations. Because they're acting as an agent for the hosts, they're also bound by those regulations. (AirBnB has claimed they are just a "platform" for connecting hosts and guests. But they handle too much of the transaction for both sides to just be a "platform"--they also handle payment, refunds, customer service, etc. Also, there's generally no such thing as a "platform" exception with respect to hoteling laws.)
- deleted 7y ago
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- dannyw 7y ago
  Pretty much every county I stayed in the US taxed Airbnb, somewhat substantially and possibly even above the prevailing rates for hotels. There are counties who derive 1/3 of their revenues from Airbnb taxes. Probably won't be banning them.
  - The_rationalist 7y ago
    Wut, 1/3 seems extremely Hyperbolic, isn't it? Otherwise I agree
    - Eric_WVGG 7y ago
      There are many towns in the Rocky Mountains whose populations are around 600 people and whose primary industry is tourism. 1/3 doesn't sound high for places like that at all. https://www.outsideonline.com/2198726/did-airbnb-kill-mountain-town https://www.outsideonline.com/2198726/did-airbnb-kill-mounta...
- zdragnar 7y ago
  A very touristy city near me offers a fixed number of permits to property owners to offer short-term rentals out of their non-primary residences homes, and somewhat recently increased the number of permits they hand out. Some places are banning operations like airbnb, and others are embracing them with the aim of controlling the downsides. Apartment owners in general don't like to allow subletting or renting because it makes things like liability and property insurance claims tricky if anything should go wrong, and people tend to like neighbors more than they do strangers walking around outside their door.
sudo-i 7y ago
I announce my intention that I will announce my intention in 2020.
- tempsy 7y ago
  On the surface, I agree this is a strange PR tactic that hasn't been followed by any private company I can think of recently . I think it's entirely possible that they are doing this because they expect to have to deal with whatever legal/regulatory issues they face around the world that have been in a grey area since they started and this is basically an invitation to regulators to do something now so that regulatory risks won't be perceived to be this massive red flag to investors as they shop the IPO around. I'd for sure argue that regulation is Airbnb's greatest existential threat, especially at a time when we're all acutely aware of how expensive housing has become in urban centers where Airbnb makes most of their money.
  - mcintyre1994 7y ago
    Gitlab also have stated when they'll go public - on Wednesday, November 18, 2020. https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/being-a-public-company/ https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/being-a-public-company/
- rolltiide 7y ago
  They probably had a leak that they need to get in front of in the midst of a private securities sale.
- refurb 7y ago
  IPO are basically a big-ass roadshow - you need to drum up excitement with institutional investors so they start salivating at the possible money they can make. This does seem early, but I’m sure there is some rationale to stay on the big bank’s radar screens and have them knocking down Airbnb’s door to be the lead bank on this deal. I’m sure someone from investment banking will be along to add some color.
perseusprime11 7y ago
They want to get ahead of the negative news and avoid We work debacle. Unfortunately, 2020 is not a great year for IPOs with the impending recession.
- notfromhere 7y ago
  If their financials are solid, they could IPO in a down market and reap cash as investors engage in a flight to quality
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Not so much recession but the window in which non-tech companies can “techwash” for IPOs is rapidly closing if the WeWork fiasco hasn’t slammed it shut already
OedipusRex 7y ago
Why all the recent IPOs?
- danaos 7y ago
  Airbnb was founded in 2008. My take is investors want to cash out before the upcoming recession.
  - enos_feedler 7y ago
    Recession?
    - Tushon 7y ago
      There are a non-trivial number of signs of a recession coming up this winter/2020. E.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/02/heres-a-list-of-recession-signals-that-are-flashing-red.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/02/heres-a-list-of-recession-si...
      - asveikau 7y ago
        Predicting the exact timing of a recession is very hard to do. You can say there are troubling signs but I would be extremely skeptical of somebody telling me "Winter/2020" with a high degree of confidence. Meanwhile, there have been people pointing out troubling signs for several years now, and if you acted on their advice you'd have lost money, but nobody could have told you that for sure at the time, either.
      - gruez 7y ago
        If everyone thinks there's going to be a recession, wouldn't that mean that would be priced into the IPO price? ie. if you think that there's going to be a recession in 3 months, you wouldn't plow a boatload of money into an IPO.
        ummonk 7y ago
        High information investors and executives know an impending recession is probable, but low information investors will still happily plow money into IPOs.
pastor_elm 7y ago
What exactly is the roadmap for Airbnb? They stays feature seems to have maxed out in listings and declining now that random people are trying to manage 15+ listings in many cities. I often see the same listings on Booking for cheaper too. All the other features I don't even look at because I'm not interested in an 'adventure' given by some random guy with no professional experience. Honestly surprised they haven't expanded at all within the stays experience. PASS
- alephnan 7y ago
  > random people are trying to manage 15+ listings in many cities. They're just normal professional hotels / hostels / BNB now > 'adventure' given by some random guy with no professional experience. The tour I went on was with actual professionals Point being, Airbnb may be same feature wise, but the offerings have become more professional, which for me personally defeats the purpose of Airbnb.
  - SenHeng 7y ago
    Airbnb has the benefit of a much better UI and UX compared to several over hotel aggregators like booking.com or expedia, or even domestic ones here in Japan like rakuten or jalan. The only thing that annoys me the Airbnb booking experience, is that it's not really a booking, it's putting in a booking request and then waiting for the owners to approve. Compared to regular hotels.
    - random42 7y ago
      > Airbnb has the benefit of a much better UI and UX compared to several over hotel aggregators like booking.com While AirBnB might be pleasing on the eyes, Booking's UI is optimised for conversion. The benefit of "better UI and UX" is arguable here if it does not result in more $ for the business. Specially if they want to compete in the public market. Disclaimer - Ex-Booking.com employee
      - alephnan 7y ago
Tiktaalik 7y ago
Seems like a good time to cash out. I don't know where the growth is going to come from at this point. Major cities have recognized the negative externalities that Airbnb has on rental vacancy and land values, and are starting to add on regulations of various strength. That will drag on growth. The company gained its valuation from days past when people were buying new condos exclusively to rent 100% of the time on Airbnb, and cities are banning that sort of behaviour.
- alephnan 7y ago
  What are the negative externalities?
  - tathougies 7y ago
    Busy-body, most likely racist, neighbors get upset that there are people who aren't rich enough living in their fancy pants neighborhood. Alternatively, jealous neighbors are upset that someone has more money than them and are convinced that it must be because the tenant is basically hitler. In other words, socially acceptable xenophobia.
  - Tiktaalik 7y ago
    Leakage of new supply to people who run new apartments as permanent Airbnbs instead of renting them out to locals. This also distorts the underlying value of the land, since you can make more money renting out on Airbnb than you can renting long term.
- cheriot 7y ago
  > negative externalities that Airbnb has on rental vacancy and land values Is that an externality of AirBnB or poor city planning? Cities are eager to build offices and advertise to attract tourists, but convince themselves they don't need more residential construction. Fixing the underlying cause will work better than banning the symptom.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    > Is that an externality of AirBnB or poor city planning? I'd say both. Poor city planning leads to it happening, but AirBnB exacerbates the problem. And for a politician, regulating AirBnB is much easier and a lot more understandable by the electorate. Explaining how they should be reelected because of changes they made to fundamental housing policy that will take 30 years to materialize is a hard sell.
michalu 7y ago
As Airbnb is getting banned across cities in Europe and locals are beginning to hate on it + staled growth it's about the time to hand the equity over to public investors and cash out. I'm not very bullish on Airbnb, I used to practically live in Airbnb for over 3 years, but for the last 2 years I haven't even logged in and been only using booking.com. I remember years back in London an Airbnb host that wasn't even the owner of the apartment but a tenant herself told me while moving in "tell everyone you're a friend, it's not allowed in this building but everyone's doing it" Now landlords and building owners are catching up and most new developments are forbidding this contractually, while others do what they can to prevent their neighbours from letting to strangers. I'm probably missing something, but I think the company is going down and they're pulling an exit scam.
- travisjungroth 7y ago
  > I'm probably missing something, but I think the company is going down and they're pulling an exit scam. Your concerns about the future of the company are reasonable, but to call a profitable company going public an “exit scam” is ridiculous.
  - michalu 7y ago
    I don't think it's ridiculous statement considering their profits are rather fragile as that's before regulation and the size of the last years earnings equals about half the current valuation by NASDAQ's median P/E.
    - quaquaqua1 7y ago
      It is proper to call it an exit scam. Blue Apron has lost 90% of its value since IPOing 2 years ago. Day one investors transfered virtually all of their value to company insiders.
      - fbonetti 7y ago
        From Blue Apron's SEC filing: > We have experienced net losses in each year since our inception. In the years ended December 31, 2014, 2015 and 2016, we incurred net losses of $(30.8) million, $(47.0) million and $(54.9) million, respectively. Blue Apron and AirBnB are not comparable.
ETHisso2017 7y ago
I generally read this as a recruiting tactic. "Don't worry, our stock will be liquid soon, we promise"
SilasX 7y ago
I think 2020 misses the window to strike when the IPO market is bubbly. Lyft and Uber timed it just right -- and those won't be the only four-letter words their investors will be screaming!
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- kochikame 7y ago
  Except both the the Lyft and Uber IPOs have been relative flops... not sure how that can be considered "timing it just right"?
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    Right for the VCs, not for retail investors
FreeHugs 7y ago
I am a big time traveler. When AirBnB appeared on the scene, it was a life changing event for me. So much better then hotels. Since then, AirBnB have not added anything that benefits me. But booking.com have catched up massively. To the point that I prefer booking.com again these days. I would have never expected that to happen. Some of my pet peeves with AirBnB: AirBnB's reviews are not chronological. So you have to read them all to make sure you do not miss recent complaints. AirBnB does not show the exact location of the apartments. AirBnB sometimes removes negative reviews for no good reason. AirBnB lets hosts get away with removing their listing (due to negative reviews) and relist them with a clean slate. I really hope AirBnB will stay strong. A healthy competition between them and booking.com is probably best for travelers. By the way, anybody here using something other then AirBnB or booking.com? Would love to hear if there are other good options to consider.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  In the touristy parts of colorado, hotels and formal condo rentals are pretty much cheaper across the board than AirBnb this year, and it's primarily due to cleaning (followed by service) fees that are often double the cost of a 1- or 2-base night rate that is already often more expensive than the nightly of a hotel. It reminds of purchasing things on eBay back in the 2000s, where the shipping cost would be triple the purchase cost.
- oftenwrong 7y ago
  How many of these pet peeves are held by the average AirBnB user? I would guess "none". These are the kinds of complaints that "power users" have because they use websites like tools. Average users don't. My mother would look at the first three reviews and consider that in-depth research. The next time she uses AirBnB, she won't notice re-listings, or removed reviews. In short, I don't think these kinds of issues are going to hurt their business.
  - pb7 7y ago
    You're probably right about that. I think the average consumer also has fairly low tolerance for mishaps with novel experiences. If they have a bad time in the first one or two stays, the next discussion at Thanksgiving dinner will be about how Airbnb is dangerous and they much prefer hotels and others should too lest they put themselves at risk.
Havoc 7y ago
2020...ouch. Good luck on that roll of the dice
RyanAF7 7y ago
Airbnb needs to undergo the same legal scrutiny with local zoning law compliance as Amazon did with sales tax. Until then, they aren't worth shit as an IPO.
rainyMammoth 7y ago
I used to only use Airbnbs a couple years ago. Lately the service really became horrible: Last minute cancellation, soulless places run like an industry. prices on the same level or even more expensive than hotels. Customer support is also completely unresponsive. I'm now going back to hotels 90% of the times where I can expect a consistent quality of services. They grew too fast and got arrogant in the process. I hope they quietly go away and get replaced by a company that does this correctly. I heard only good things about HomeAway lately
- tempsy 7y ago
  Another really annoying thing about the app is that they’ve seemingly increased the number of clicks/steps to complete a simple search for a place because they’re heavily pushing “experiences.” Very irritating
- hrjriei9 7y ago
  Don’t bother with Vacasa. Same story. Arrogant and expensive. Cashing in on tech startup hype while looking to buy up as much real property as possible to sit on.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  > Lately the service really became horrible: Last minute cancellation, soulless places run like an industry. prices on the same level or even more expensive than hotels. Customer support is also completely unresponsive. This has generally been my experience. It's very hit-or-miss, and some places were fantastic... but others weren't. I got jerked around a lot and ended up paying rates roughly on par with local hotels. At least with the big name chain hotels I can generally predict what I'm going to get, what it will cost me, and I can easily harangue, bitch, complain, and possibly sue the actual chain. AirBnB makes it harder to seek a resolution, if needed.
- canada_dry 7y ago
  After I experienced a couple bad bookings I found out about: airbnbhell.com It's full of horror stories from both owners and renters. And the gist seems to be: once Airbnb has your money (fee) they really couldn't care less about what happens. I recently stopped using them after they asked to send in facsimiles of government ID to continue using their services (after being a customer with all 5 star reports over many years).
baby 7y ago
I really really love Airbnb, and I've mostly stayed at Airbnb and ignored hotel in the last 5 years perhaps. I now find hotels dirty, impersonal, and a chore to stay at to be honest. Now, I've become increasingly irritated by Airbnb's pricing tactics. They are blatantly lying to you when it comes to how much you're going to pay. I have two recent examples if you are not used to booking Airbnb: * 99$/night room end up being 159$ for a night [1] * 150$/night room end up being 500$ for two nights [2] And these are not exceptions, but pretty much the norm nowadays. The final prices are ALWAYS way higher than what you would expect. [1]: https://twitter.com/cryptodavidw/status/1173775045606301696 https://twitter.com/cryptodavidw/status/1173775045606301696 [2]: https://twitter.com/cryptodavidw/status/1159574818661867520 https://twitter.com/cryptodavidw/status/1159574818661867520
- simonebrunozzi 7y ago
  I'm not sure, but this might fall into the category of "dark patterns". It's the same as Lyft and Uber giving you a "wait" estimate that almost always ends up being longer, but if the expected wait seems to be shorter, you are more likely to book the car and wait for it to show up. Similarly, you are more likely to book the room/house/apartment on AirBnB if the price shown is lower than the final price. Bad behavior. But everybody does this, one way or another.
- avar 7y ago
  AirBnB clearly uses low room rates and high service fees to pull you in, but there's a legitimate reason to display it like that. The cleaning fee is fixed. So maybe you start out thinking you'll stay 5 days, but end up staying 10. If they showed "all inclusive" rates you'd have confusion in the other direction. What you thought was the cheap hotel suddenly isn't because the cleaning fee for the two is very different. Similarly, it's important to display the local taxes separately, because some customers may be e.g. entitled to a rebate for that part (some localities e.g. only charge foreigners).
  - chrislh 7y ago
    The product I work on has a search experience similar to Airbnb's. We initially made the choice to show all-in prices on the initial search screens. Bookings TANKED. Guests called in to complain why our listings are "more expensive on our own site than Airbnb" (they were cheaper at the end of the day, but we weren't hiding fees). End of the day, we had to switch to Airbnb's fee-hiding style because users are trained to expect the hidden fees.
leggomuhgreggo 7y ago
It'd be cool if they didn't capitulate to participating in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians https://cloverly.com/blog/the-man-who-linked-co-to-climate-change/ https://cloverly.com/blog/the-man-who-linked-co-to-climate-c...
- buildzr 7y ago
  Wrong link?
401kguy 7y ago
Something I've long wondered about in Airbnb's communication platform and guarding their earnings: When a host answers a customer and attempts to put a phone number, an email address, a URL, the word "craigslist", or spelling out a number like three six seven..., it gets replaced by "(HIDDEN FOR YOUR PROTECTION)". The frustration at that point leads one to suspect that it's actually hidden to prevent anything that could lead to transactions outside of the platform, where Airbnb would be unable to take their cut. If there does turn out to be a means to establish contact, and a rental then happens outside of Airbnb's systems, do the terms of service actually restrict this? It just seems strange to me at the outset. As far as I know Amazon sellers aren't prohibited from also selling off-Amazon, but maybe housing and other industries have some conventions that are comparable?
- throwairway123 7y ago
  I used to work at Airbnb. While certainly it’s in Airbnb’s financial interests to keep transactions on platform, I saw a great deal of cases where fraudulent hosts (with fake listings) were encouraging folks to make off platform payments. Of course the first thing most guests do in those cases is complain to Airbnb and demand their money back — as if Airbnb had taken their money. Putting some friction helps Airbnb say, “We’re sorry that happened, but that’s not our problem.”
- whitehouse3 7y ago
  eBay has done this for years as well.
bane 7y ago
We've been using AirBnB's for maybe 95% of our vacation stays since 2016. I think many of the comments here are spot on w/r to weird fees and semi-pro "hoteliers" with multiple properties and so on. Some thoughts from staying at a few dozen different places all over the world: - The quality of places we've gotten in the U.S. has in general been lower and not entirely matching the description. With a couple exceptions, the U.S. AirBnB's have definitely been...not great. But we feel pressured to leave good reviews so that the host leaves us good counter review so that other hosts will make sure to book us. - Outside of the U.S., the experience has been almost universally great. Better on average than hotels for the same price. Bigger, better locations, better prices, and so on. - We've definitely moved from "spare room" to "entire place" and been much happier and less awkward feeling for everybody involved. However, some of the more memorably places have been meeting people in the places we stay. - Some of the nicest places we've stayed were flats in Europe where the owner has taken a job in some other country and rents their place out on AirBnB. There was a particularly fantastic 6 days in Vienna in a two bedroom flat with a full kitchen, clothes washer, free parking, and a fully furnished living room, a 5 minute walk from the tram and a short 15 minute ride to the city center under $65 a night...absolutely insane. - We've definitely stayed at places where we were instructed to say "we're friends of so and so". It felt weird, but we've never had a problem and we try to be particularly quiet and respectful of the community we're staying in. Still, it needs to be worked out and I can definitely see the side of other people who live in the building not liking it. - I'm aware that AirBnB is not helping anybody's housing costs. On the flip side it definitely seems to be revitalizing some other housing markets in interesting neighborhoods. One enterprising place we stayed in Budapest was slowly being bought, renovated and flipped a flat at a time and some locals mentioned that the neighborhood has gone from run down to revitalized with all the new foot traffic coming from a couple buildings that were going through the same strategy. - I think Japan is the closest to regulating it correctly. They've basically said, "if you want to run an AirBnB, it's fine, but you are now a limited use hotel." Of the half dozen places we've stayed in Japan, every single one followed the new law 100% and it wasn't a huge fuss. It honestly made it more comfortable to stay in since we didn't feel like usurpers as much. Bonus, every place we stayed in was also correctly outfitted with emergency exit signs and other "hotel safety things" like fire extinguishers and so on. They can only rent out their apartments for so many days-per-year which also helps with some of the property speculation bits I think. - We've stayed at a couple places in economically depressed communities and it was very clear that the AirBnB was a very unique economic opportunity for the owners that was bringing in much needed income that they really didn't have access to in any other way. Very memorable, positive, stays in those cases because we felt we were doing a little bit of good.
systematical 7y ago
I was heavy Airbnb, I'm now 50/50. If traveling solo I prefer hostels, they are cheaper and I get to meet people from all walks of life. Some of the best experiences of my life have come from being in a hostel. I once nabbed a cheap ticket to Tomorrow Land while at a hostel in Belgium, the person's friend couldn't make it. That's just one of many.
2rsf 7y ago
Having more than one kids gives Airbnb an edge over most hotels in the price per person category. The normal pricing range in hotels is 2 beds are normally priced (a small kids is optionally included) but anything more than that requires more rooms or a suite. At Airbnb the price per person becomes much more reasonable, and that's before the ability to find the kids something to do since most places have TVs, a streamer and some game stuff.

159 points by tempsy 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Tangential to the topic, but does AirBnB operate under any regulations? When I was in Seattle, my apartment building ended up adding an explicit clause in the lease saying you couldn’t rent a property and turn it around into an AirBnB or any kind of room share for temporary or short term stays. The legal framework wasn’t there (this is 2016 I’m describing), and so I wonder why go public now. Get a more solid footing and then lobby for regulation to drown out other start ups?

jfk13 7y ago
Perhaps people are keen to cash in before regulation catches up with them more widely?
- blueadept111 7y ago
  I live in Vancouver (BC) and over here Airbnb worked with city to create and enforce regulation for short term rentals (ie, requiring a license to operate and then actually policing and enforcing the regulations). I think its working out well an expect to see this model being applied in other cities as well.
  - jfk13 7y ago
    Though perhaps it's not always working perfectly... https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/2019/09/18/airbnb-condo-breaking-rules-river-district-vancouver/ https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/2019/09/18/airbnb-condo-b...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
tempsy 7y ago
A lot of cities explicitly ban short term AirBnBs of less than 30 days, unless you as the owner are staying there as well. HOAs can be more strict on top of whatever existing city regulations exist.
- greenyoda 7y ago
  NYC, one of Airbnb's biggest markets, has been cracking down hard on illegal short-term rentals. Bloomberg has an article today about it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21015849 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21015849
gamblor956 7y ago
AirBnBs are generally subject to hoteling regulations in every market that has them. AirBnB, as the booking agent for the hosts, doesn't get to ignore the regulations just because the host is liable for any violations. Because they're acting as an agent for the hosts, they're also bound by those regulations. (AirBnB has claimed they are just a "platform" for connecting hosts and guests. But they handle too much of the transaction for both sides to just be a "platform"--they also handle payment, refunds, customer service, etc. Also, there's generally no such thing as a "platform" exception with respect to hoteling laws.)
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dannyw 7y ago
Pretty much every county I stayed in the US taxed Airbnb, somewhat substantially and possibly even above the prevailing rates for hotels. There are counties who derive 1/3 of their revenues from Airbnb taxes. Probably won't be banning them.
- The_rationalist 7y ago
  Wut, 1/3 seems extremely Hyperbolic, isn't it? Otherwise I agree
  - Eric_WVGG 7y ago
    There are many towns in the Rocky Mountains whose populations are around 600 people and whose primary industry is tourism. 1/3 doesn't sound high for places like that at all. https://www.outsideonline.com/2198726/did-airbnb-kill-mountain-town https://www.outsideonline.com/2198726/did-airbnb-kill-mounta...
zdragnar 7y ago
A very touristy city near me offers a fixed number of permits to property owners to offer short-term rentals out of their non-primary residences homes, and somewhat recently increased the number of permits they hand out. Some places are banning operations like airbnb, and others are embracing them with the aim of controlling the downsides. Apartment owners in general don't like to allow subletting or renting because it makes things like liability and property insurance claims tricky if anything should go wrong, and people tend to like neighbors more than they do strangers walking around outside their door.

sudo-i 7y ago

I announce my intention that I will announce my intention in 2020.

tempsy 7y ago
On the surface, I agree this is a strange PR tactic that hasn't been followed by any private company I can think of recently . I think it's entirely possible that they are doing this because they expect to have to deal with whatever legal/regulatory issues they face around the world that have been in a grey area since they started and this is basically an invitation to regulators to do something now so that regulatory risks won't be perceived to be this massive red flag to investors as they shop the IPO around. I'd for sure argue that regulation is Airbnb's greatest existential threat, especially at a time when we're all acutely aware of how expensive housing has become in urban centers where Airbnb makes most of their money.
- mcintyre1994 7y ago
  Gitlab also have stated when they'll go public - on Wednesday, November 18, 2020. https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/being-a-public-company/ https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/being-a-public-company/
rolltiide 7y ago
They probably had a leak that they need to get in front of in the midst of a private securities sale.
refurb 7y ago
IPO are basically a big-ass roadshow - you need to drum up excitement with institutional investors so they start salivating at the possible money they can make. This does seem early, but I’m sure there is some rationale to stay on the big bank’s radar screens and have them knocking down Airbnb’s door to be the lead bank on this deal. I’m sure someone from investment banking will be along to add some color.

perseusprime11 7y ago

They want to get ahead of the negative news and avoid We work debacle. Unfortunately, 2020 is not a great year for IPOs with the impending recession.

notfromhere 7y ago
If their financials are solid, they could IPO in a down market and reap cash as investors engage in a flight to quality
goatinaboat 7y ago
Not so much recession but the window in which non-tech companies can “techwash” for IPOs is rapidly closing if the WeWork fiasco hasn’t slammed it shut already

OedipusRex 7y ago

Why all the recent IPOs?

danaos 7y ago
Airbnb was founded in 2008. My take is investors want to cash out before the upcoming recession.
- enos_feedler 7y ago
  Recession?
  - Tushon 7y ago
    There are a non-trivial number of signs of a recession coming up this winter/2020. E.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/02/heres-a-list-of-recession-signals-that-are-flashing-red.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/02/heres-a-list-of-recession-si...
    - asveikau 7y ago
      Predicting the exact timing of a recession is very hard to do. You can say there are troubling signs but I would be extremely skeptical of somebody telling me "Winter/2020" with a high degree of confidence. Meanwhile, there have been people pointing out troubling signs for several years now, and if you acted on their advice you'd have lost money, but nobody could have told you that for sure at the time, either.
    - gruez 7y ago
      If everyone thinks there's going to be a recession, wouldn't that mean that would be priced into the IPO price? ie. if you think that there's going to be a recession in 3 months, you wouldn't plow a boatload of money into an IPO.
      - ummonk 7y ago
        High information investors and executives know an impending recession is probable, but low information investors will still happily plow money into IPOs.

pastor_elm 7y ago

What exactly is the roadmap for Airbnb? They stays feature seems to have maxed out in listings and declining now that random people are trying to manage 15+ listings in many cities. I often see the same listings on Booking for cheaper too. All the other features I don't even look at because I'm not interested in an 'adventure' given by some random guy with no professional experience. Honestly surprised they haven't expanded at all within the stays experience. PASS

alephnan 7y ago
> random people are trying to manage 15+ listings in many cities. They're just normal professional hotels / hostels / BNB now > 'adventure' given by some random guy with no professional experience. The tour I went on was with actual professionals Point being, Airbnb may be same feature wise, but the offerings have become more professional, which for me personally defeats the purpose of Airbnb.
- SenHeng 7y ago
  Airbnb has the benefit of a much better UI and UX compared to several over hotel aggregators like booking.com or expedia, or even domestic ones here in Japan like rakuten or jalan. The only thing that annoys me the Airbnb booking experience, is that it's not really a booking, it's putting in a booking request and then waiting for the owners to approve. Compared to regular hotels.
  - random42 7y ago
    > Airbnb has the benefit of a much better UI and UX compared to several over hotel aggregators like booking.com While AirBnB might be pleasing on the eyes, Booking's UI is optimised for conversion. The benefit of "better UI and UX" is arguable here if it does not result in more $ for the business. Specially if they want to compete in the public market. Disclaimer - Ex-Booking.com employee
    - alephnan 7y ago

Tiktaalik 7y ago

Seems like a good time to cash out. I don't know where the growth is going to come from at this point. Major cities have recognized the negative externalities that Airbnb has on rental vacancy and land values, and are starting to add on regulations of various strength. That will drag on growth. The company gained its valuation from days past when people were buying new condos exclusively to rent 100% of the time on Airbnb, and cities are banning that sort of behaviour.

alephnan 7y ago
What are the negative externalities?
- tathougies 7y ago
  Busy-body, most likely racist, neighbors get upset that there are people who aren't rich enough living in their fancy pants neighborhood. Alternatively, jealous neighbors are upset that someone has more money than them and are convinced that it must be because the tenant is basically hitler. In other words, socially acceptable xenophobia.
- Tiktaalik 7y ago
  Leakage of new supply to people who run new apartments as permanent Airbnbs instead of renting them out to locals. This also distorts the underlying value of the land, since you can make more money renting out on Airbnb than you can renting long term.
cheriot 7y ago
> negative externalities that Airbnb has on rental vacancy and land values Is that an externality of AirBnB or poor city planning? Cities are eager to build offices and advertise to attract tourists, but convince themselves they don't need more residential construction. Fixing the underlying cause will work better than banning the symptom.
- jedberg 7y ago
  > Is that an externality of AirBnB or poor city planning? I'd say both. Poor city planning leads to it happening, but AirBnB exacerbates the problem. And for a politician, regulating AirBnB is much easier and a lot more understandable by the electorate. Explaining how they should be reelected because of changes they made to fundamental housing policy that will take 30 years to materialize is a hard sell.

michalu 7y ago

As Airbnb is getting banned across cities in Europe and locals are beginning to hate on it + staled growth it's about the time to hand the equity over to public investors and cash out. I'm not very bullish on Airbnb, I used to practically live in Airbnb for over 3 years, but for the last 2 years I haven't even logged in and been only using booking.com. I remember years back in London an Airbnb host that wasn't even the owner of the apartment but a tenant herself told me while moving in "tell everyone you're a friend, it's not allowed in this building but everyone's doing it" Now landlords and building owners are catching up and most new developments are forbidding this contractually, while others do what they can to prevent their neighbours from letting to strangers. I'm probably missing something, but I think the company is going down and they're pulling an exit scam.

travisjungroth 7y ago
> I'm probably missing something, but I think the company is going down and they're pulling an exit scam. Your concerns about the future of the company are reasonable, but to call a profitable company going public an “exit scam” is ridiculous.
- michalu 7y ago
  I don't think it's ridiculous statement considering their profits are rather fragile as that's before regulation and the size of the last years earnings equals about half the current valuation by NASDAQ's median P/E.
  - quaquaqua1 7y ago
    It is proper to call it an exit scam. Blue Apron has lost 90% of its value since IPOing 2 years ago. Day one investors transfered virtually all of their value to company insiders.
    - fbonetti 7y ago
      From Blue Apron's SEC filing: > We have experienced net losses in each year since our inception. In the years ended December 31, 2014, 2015 and 2016, we incurred net losses of $(30.8) million, $(47.0) million and $(54.9) million, respectively. Blue Apron and AirBnB are not comparable.

ETHisso2017 7y ago

I generally read this as a recruiting tactic. "Don't worry, our stock will be liquid soon, we promise"

SilasX 7y ago

I think 2020 misses the window to strike when the IPO market is bubbly. Lyft and Uber timed it just right -- and those won't be the only four-letter words their investors will be screaming!

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
kochikame 7y ago
Except both the the Lyft and Uber IPOs have been relative flops... not sure how that can be considered "timing it just right"?
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Right for the VCs, not for retail investors

FreeHugs 7y ago

I am a big time traveler. When AirBnB appeared on the scene, it was a life changing event for me. So much better then hotels. Since then, AirBnB have not added anything that benefits me. But booking.com have catched up massively. To the point that I prefer booking.com again these days. I would have never expected that to happen. Some of my pet peeves with AirBnB: AirBnB's reviews are not chronological. So you have to read them all to make sure you do not miss recent complaints. AirBnB does not show the exact location of the apartments. AirBnB sometimes removes negative reviews for no good reason. AirBnB lets hosts get away with removing their listing (due to negative reviews) and relist them with a clean slate. I really hope AirBnB will stay strong. A healthy competition between them and booking.com is probably best for travelers. By the way, anybody here using something other then AirBnB or booking.com? Would love to hear if there are other good options to consider.

ilikehurdles 7y ago
In the touristy parts of colorado, hotels and formal condo rentals are pretty much cheaper across the board than AirBnb this year, and it's primarily due to cleaning (followed by service) fees that are often double the cost of a 1- or 2-base night rate that is already often more expensive than the nightly of a hotel. It reminds of purchasing things on eBay back in the 2000s, where the shipping cost would be triple the purchase cost.
oftenwrong 7y ago
How many of these pet peeves are held by the average AirBnB user? I would guess "none". These are the kinds of complaints that "power users" have because they use websites like tools. Average users don't. My mother would look at the first three reviews and consider that in-depth research. The next time she uses AirBnB, she won't notice re-listings, or removed reviews. In short, I don't think these kinds of issues are going to hurt their business.
- pb7 7y ago
  You're probably right about that. I think the average consumer also has fairly low tolerance for mishaps with novel experiences. If they have a bad time in the first one or two stays, the next discussion at Thanksgiving dinner will be about how Airbnb is dangerous and they much prefer hotels and others should too lest they put themselves at risk.

Havoc 7y ago

2020...ouch. Good luck on that roll of the dice

RyanAF7 7y ago

Airbnb needs to undergo the same legal scrutiny with local zoning law compliance as Amazon did with sales tax. Until then, they aren't worth shit as an IPO.

rainyMammoth 7y ago

I used to only use Airbnbs a couple years ago. Lately the service really became horrible: Last minute cancellation, soulless places run like an industry. prices on the same level or even more expensive than hotels. Customer support is also completely unresponsive. I'm now going back to hotels 90% of the times where I can expect a consistent quality of services. They grew too fast and got arrogant in the process. I hope they quietly go away and get replaced by a company that does this correctly. I heard only good things about HomeAway lately

tempsy 7y ago
Another really annoying thing about the app is that they’ve seemingly increased the number of clicks/steps to complete a simple search for a place because they’re heavily pushing “experiences.” Very irritating
hrjriei9 7y ago
Don’t bother with Vacasa. Same story. Arrogant and expensive. Cashing in on tech startup hype while looking to buy up as much real property as possible to sit on.
blaser-waffle 7y ago
> Lately the service really became horrible: Last minute cancellation, soulless places run like an industry. prices on the same level or even more expensive than hotels. Customer support is also completely unresponsive. This has generally been my experience. It's very hit-or-miss, and some places were fantastic... but others weren't. I got jerked around a lot and ended up paying rates roughly on par with local hotels. At least with the big name chain hotels I can generally predict what I'm going to get, what it will cost me, and I can easily harangue, bitch, complain, and possibly sue the actual chain. AirBnB makes it harder to seek a resolution, if needed.
canada_dry 7y ago
After I experienced a couple bad bookings I found out about: airbnbhell.com It's full of horror stories from both owners and renters. And the gist seems to be: once Airbnb has your money (fee) they really couldn't care less about what happens. I recently stopped using them after they asked to send in facsimiles of government ID to continue using their services (after being a customer with all 5 star reports over many years).

baby 7y ago

I really really love Airbnb, and I've mostly stayed at Airbnb and ignored hotel in the last 5 years perhaps. I now find hotels dirty, impersonal, and a chore to stay at to be honest. Now, I've become increasingly irritated by Airbnb's pricing tactics. They are blatantly lying to you when it comes to how much you're going to pay. I have two recent examples if you are not used to booking Airbnb: * 99$/night room end up being 159$ for a night [1] * 150$/night room end up being 500$ for two nights [2] And these are not exceptions, but pretty much the norm nowadays. The final prices are ALWAYS way higher than what you would expect. [1]: https://twitter.com/cryptodavidw/status/1173775045606301696 https://twitter.com/cryptodavidw/status/1173775045606301696 [2]: https://twitter.com/cryptodavidw/status/1159574818661867520 https://twitter.com/cryptodavidw/status/1159574818661867520

simonebrunozzi 7y ago
I'm not sure, but this might fall into the category of "dark patterns". It's the same as Lyft and Uber giving you a "wait" estimate that almost always ends up being longer, but if the expected wait seems to be shorter, you are more likely to book the car and wait for it to show up. Similarly, you are more likely to book the room/house/apartment on AirBnB if the price shown is lower than the final price. Bad behavior. But everybody does this, one way or another.
avar 7y ago
AirBnB clearly uses low room rates and high service fees to pull you in, but there's a legitimate reason to display it like that. The cleaning fee is fixed. So maybe you start out thinking you'll stay 5 days, but end up staying 10. If they showed "all inclusive" rates you'd have confusion in the other direction. What you thought was the cheap hotel suddenly isn't because the cleaning fee for the two is very different. Similarly, it's important to display the local taxes separately, because some customers may be e.g. entitled to a rebate for that part (some localities e.g. only charge foreigners).
- chrislh 7y ago
  The product I work on has a search experience similar to Airbnb's. We initially made the choice to show all-in prices on the initial search screens. Bookings TANKED. Guests called in to complain why our listings are "more expensive on our own site than Airbnb" (they were cheaper at the end of the day, but we weren't hiding fees). End of the day, we had to switch to Airbnb's fee-hiding style because users are trained to expect the hidden fees.

leggomuhgreggo 7y ago

It'd be cool if they didn't capitulate to participating in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians https://cloverly.com/blog/the-man-who-linked-co-to-climate-change/ https://cloverly.com/blog/the-man-who-linked-co-to-climate-c...

buildzr 7y ago
Wrong link?

401kguy 7y ago

Something I've long wondered about in Airbnb's communication platform and guarding their earnings: When a host answers a customer and attempts to put a phone number, an email address, a URL, the word "craigslist", or spelling out a number like three six seven..., it gets replaced by "(HIDDEN FOR YOUR PROTECTION)". The frustration at that point leads one to suspect that it's actually hidden to prevent anything that could lead to transactions outside of the platform, where Airbnb would be unable to take their cut. If there does turn out to be a means to establish contact, and a rental then happens outside of Airbnb's systems, do the terms of service actually restrict this? It just seems strange to me at the outset. As far as I know Amazon sellers aren't prohibited from also selling off-Amazon, but maybe housing and other industries have some conventions that are comparable?

throwairway123 7y ago
I used to work at Airbnb. While certainly it’s in Airbnb’s financial interests to keep transactions on platform, I saw a great deal of cases where fraudulent hosts (with fake listings) were encouraging folks to make off platform payments. Of course the first thing most guests do in those cases is complain to Airbnb and demand their money back — as if Airbnb had taken their money. Putting some friction helps Airbnb say, “We’re sorry that happened, but that’s not our problem.”
whitehouse3 7y ago
eBay has done this for years as well.

bane 7y ago

We've been using AirBnB's for maybe 95% of our vacation stays since 2016. I think many of the comments here are spot on w/r to weird fees and semi-pro "hoteliers" with multiple properties and so on. Some thoughts from staying at a few dozen different places all over the world: - The quality of places we've gotten in the U.S. has in general been lower and not entirely matching the description. With a couple exceptions, the U.S. AirBnB's have definitely been...not great. But we feel pressured to leave good reviews so that the host leaves us good counter review so that other hosts will make sure to book us. - Outside of the U.S., the experience has been almost universally great. Better on average than hotels for the same price. Bigger, better locations, better prices, and so on. - We've definitely moved from "spare room" to "entire place" and been much happier and less awkward feeling for everybody involved. However, some of the more memorably places have been meeting people in the places we stay. - Some of the nicest places we've stayed were flats in Europe where the owner has taken a job in some other country and rents their place out on AirBnB. There was a particularly fantastic 6 days in Vienna in a two bedroom flat with a full kitchen, clothes washer, free parking, and a fully furnished living room, a 5 minute walk from the tram and a short 15 minute ride to the city center under $65 a night...absolutely insane. - We've definitely stayed at places where we were instructed to say "we're friends of so and so". It felt weird, but we've never had a problem and we try to be particularly quiet and respectful of the community we're staying in. Still, it needs to be worked out and I can definitely see the side of other people who live in the building not liking it. - I'm aware that AirBnB is not helping anybody's housing costs. On the flip side it definitely seems to be revitalizing some other housing markets in interesting neighborhoods. One enterprising place we stayed in Budapest was slowly being bought, renovated and flipped a flat at a time and some locals mentioned that the neighborhood has gone from run down to revitalized with all the new foot traffic coming from a couple buildings that were going through the same strategy. - I think Japan is the closest to regulating it correctly. They've basically said, "if you want to run an AirBnB, it's fine, but you are now a limited use hotel." Of the half dozen places we've stayed in Japan, every single one followed the new law 100% and it wasn't a huge fuss. It honestly made it more comfortable to stay in since we didn't feel like usurpers as much. Bonus, every place we stayed in was also correctly outfitted with emergency exit signs and other "hotel safety things" like fire extinguishers and so on. They can only rent out their apartments for so many days-per-year which also helps with some of the property speculation bits I think. - We've stayed at a couple places in economically depressed communities and it was very clear that the AirBnB was a very unique economic opportunity for the owners that was bringing in much needed income that they really didn't have access to in any other way. Very memorable, positive, stays in those cases because we felt we were doing a little bit of good.

systematical 7y ago

I was heavy Airbnb, I'm now 50/50. If traveling solo I prefer hostels, they are cheaper and I get to meet people from all walks of life. Some of the best experiences of my life have come from being in a hostel. I once nabbed a cheap ticket to Tomorrow Land while at a hostel in Belgium, the person's friend couldn't make it. That's just one of many.

2rsf 7y ago

Having more than one kids gives Airbnb an edge over most hotels in the price per person category. The normal pricing range in hotels is 2 beds are normally priced (a small kids is optionally included) but anything more than that requires more rooms or a suite. At Airbnb the price per person becomes much more reasonable, and that's before the ability to find the kids something to do since most places have TVs, a streamer and some game stuff.