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The comments on this thread are terrible. I don't know enough about him to pass moral judgement, but it seems like many others think that they do (after a quic

The comments on this thread are terrible. I don't know enough about him to pass moral judgement, but it seems like many others think that they do (after a quick scan of Wikipedia, meh, that's good enough). It just seems crass to be flippantly judgmental when the guy just died, and in response to his last elegant / humble / insightful "post" to the world. I'm also confused at the implicit viewpoints that, IMO, are at odds with the HN/YC ethos of "individual hussle/initiative/hack your way to huge growth/etc". I.e. if Pickens wasn't from another generation and another industry, I think he'd fit in very well with the HN/YC types (disclaimer/ha, I'm making an assumption that I just chastised others for doing). Anyway, makes me wonder if the "real HN" crowd has moved on elsewhere.

Clubber 7y ago
Our culture seems to have just gotten angry all the time and at everybody. Probably not healthy. Definitely a waste of emotional energy.
adrr 7y ago
Because he was terrible person who tried to con people out their water under guise of clean energy. He's best forgotten.
kragen 7y ago
Hacking is the playful application of ingenuity, or achieving things the experts in the field thought were impossible. Pickens, whatever his merits, didn't do that and didn't value it. Hacking is not tricking people and ripping them off.
_match 7y ago
Agreed. Currently reading the biography of Disney, and it’s so depressing to hear he was the punching bag of every writer, journalist, critic, and university professor throughout the 60s. Was Disney the conformist racist simpleminded backwater troglodyte they claimed, or were they? It’s hard to not be bothered by the pettiness of the “cold and timid souls who neither know victory or defeat”. But I once felt hacker news had fewer of those voices.
- spking 7y ago
  Are you reading the Gabler or Thomas biography on Disney?
  - _match 7y ago
    Gabler
    - spking 7y ago
      I've read both, and am re-reading the Thomas biography now. I recommend you follow the Gabler version with the Thomas version: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/526061.Walt_Disney https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/526061.Walt_Disney I did after reading this article: http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Essays/Diane_On_Gabler/Diane_On_Gabler.html http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Essays/Diane_On_Gabler/Diane_O...
      - _match 7y ago
        Ok will do, thanks for the link. So far my impression isn’t that the book is intentionally negative, but appreciate the additional context.
- Aloha 7y ago
  Having read several bio's of Disney, I'd say he wasn't. The worst factual criticism that can be pointed at Disney was he was overly sentimental for a past that never was. He painted American history in such a way to present a "smooth façade of sentimentality and stubborn optimism". He was very much a man of his time, he wasn't known to use racial epithets - but was racially insensitive like most men of his era - he had several jews in his inner circle, and none of his employees (even the ones who didn't like him) would say he was anti-Semitic - but he allied himself with anti-communist groups that had a strong anti-Semitic bend to them. I would argue on whole, he left the world a better place than he found it however, the technical improvements he and his company introduced to the world of animation left a huge and lasting impact felt the world over.
martythemaniak 7y ago
I think there's been a huge change in HN's tone over the last 1-2 years or thereabouts towards "takedowns" and lots of negative rhetoric against people, companies, technologies etc. I used to think it was mostly just specific things, like anti-Musk sentiment because a lot of people find him grating, but I now think its mostly just a reflection of the general anti-tech that's very much in vogue. I also think it's a one-way street, because it's very asymmetrical. It's super quick, easy and satisfying to burn someone because they appear to be a hypocrite, but quite hard to make the counter-case, because reality is often messy and grey (such as this guy, who was both an oil man and a wind energy man). So fewer and fewer people will bother to do all that work to reply to negativity, which will naturally lead to more voice/upvotes on one side, which makes it even more onerous to reply etc.
- codeddesign 7y ago
  I agree with this sentiment. Being on here for 6 years now, the overwhelming perspective is love to hate along with the mob rules. Go against the mob and you will be downvoted to oblivion. Ridiculing someone that cannot depend themselves is just a new low in moral character amongst HN users.
- supercanuck 7y ago
  I don't think it is anti-tech, so much as anti big money. Tech isn't as sexy when you realize how it is funded. Tech use to be about people working in their garages and striking rich on hard work, perseverance.
  - goseeastarwar 7y ago
    Tech is the same as it ever was, trying to convince yourself otherwise is rewriting history.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
js2 7y ago
> The comments on this thread are terrible. Those comments are all now dead or nearly so and I wouldn't have even seen them if your comment weren't calling attention to them. Please don't do that. Just downvote or flag them and trust others to do the same. Otherwise we end up having another discussion about HN instead of about the submission. > Anyway, makes me wonder if the "real HN" crowd has moved on elsewhere. Please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Just go look at any HN submission of any remotely controversial figure and you'll find terrible comments. It isn't new.
- stephen 7y ago
  Fair! Thanks for the reminder. You're right; I was very early into this thread, when those comments were still at the top. And also the mobile app I use doesn't have a down vote button, so my "I want to react" urge had to go through a new comment instead of the voting itself. I'll flip over to chrome and down vote there next time.
Audoenus 7y ago
This site is turning into reddit
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mbostleman 7y ago
I think the fact that your foundation of historical context requires a need to consult Wikipedia to know who/what T. Boone Pickens was is a good predictor of that negative knee-jerk response given popular culture today as so much of it relies on minimal historical context.
codesushi42 7y ago
Don't come here for the political commentary. Do it for the technical commentary. At least when it is not completely incorrect bullshit. But the latter has always been an issue here. And there's still enough insight to keep me coming back.

Clubber 7y ago

Our culture seems to have just gotten angry all the time and at everybody. Probably not healthy. Definitely a waste of emotional energy.

adrr 7y ago

Because he was terrible person who tried to con people out their water under guise of clean energy. He's best forgotten.

kragen 7y ago

Hacking is the playful application of ingenuity, or achieving things the experts in the field thought were impossible. Pickens, whatever his merits, didn't do that and didn't value it. Hacking is not tricking people and ripping them off.

_match 7y ago

Agreed. Currently reading the biography of Disney, and it’s so depressing to hear he was the punching bag of every writer, journalist, critic, and university professor throughout the 60s. Was Disney the conformist racist simpleminded backwater troglodyte they claimed, or were they? It’s hard to not be bothered by the pettiness of the “cold and timid souls who neither know victory or defeat”. But I once felt hacker news had fewer of those voices.

spking 7y ago
Are you reading the Gabler or Thomas biography on Disney?
- _match 7y ago
  Gabler
  - spking 7y ago
    I've read both, and am re-reading the Thomas biography now. I recommend you follow the Gabler version with the Thomas version: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/526061.Walt_Disney https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/526061.Walt_Disney I did after reading this article: http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Essays/Diane_On_Gabler/Diane_On_Gabler.html http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Essays/Diane_On_Gabler/Diane_O...
    - _match 7y ago
      Ok will do, thanks for the link. So far my impression isn’t that the book is intentionally negative, but appreciate the additional context.
Aloha 7y ago
Having read several bio's of Disney, I'd say he wasn't. The worst factual criticism that can be pointed at Disney was he was overly sentimental for a past that never was. He painted American history in such a way to present a "smooth façade of sentimentality and stubborn optimism". He was very much a man of his time, he wasn't known to use racial epithets - but was racially insensitive like most men of his era - he had several jews in his inner circle, and none of his employees (even the ones who didn't like him) would say he was anti-Semitic - but he allied himself with anti-communist groups that had a strong anti-Semitic bend to them. I would argue on whole, he left the world a better place than he found it however, the technical improvements he and his company introduced to the world of animation left a huge and lasting impact felt the world over.

martythemaniak 7y ago

I think there's been a huge change in HN's tone over the last 1-2 years or thereabouts towards "takedowns" and lots of negative rhetoric against people, companies, technologies etc. I used to think it was mostly just specific things, like anti-Musk sentiment because a lot of people find him grating, but I now think its mostly just a reflection of the general anti-tech that's very much in vogue. I also think it's a one-way street, because it's very asymmetrical. It's super quick, easy and satisfying to burn someone because they appear to be a hypocrite, but quite hard to make the counter-case, because reality is often messy and grey (such as this guy, who was both an oil man and a wind energy man). So fewer and fewer people will bother to do all that work to reply to negativity, which will naturally lead to more voice/upvotes on one side, which makes it even more onerous to reply etc.

codeddesign 7y ago
I agree with this sentiment. Being on here for 6 years now, the overwhelming perspective is love to hate along with the mob rules. Go against the mob and you will be downvoted to oblivion. Ridiculing someone that cannot depend themselves is just a new low in moral character amongst HN users.
supercanuck 7y ago
I don't think it is anti-tech, so much as anti big money. Tech isn't as sexy when you realize how it is funded. Tech use to be about people working in their garages and striking rich on hard work, perseverance.
- goseeastarwar 7y ago
  Tech is the same as it ever was, trying to convince yourself otherwise is rewriting history.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

js2 7y ago

> The comments on this thread are terrible. Those comments are all now dead or nearly so and I wouldn't have even seen them if your comment weren't calling attention to them. Please don't do that. Just downvote or flag them and trust others to do the same. Otherwise we end up having another discussion about HN instead of about the submission. > Anyway, makes me wonder if the "real HN" crowd has moved on elsewhere. Please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Just go look at any HN submission of any remotely controversial figure and you'll find terrible comments. It isn't new.

stephen 7y ago
Fair! Thanks for the reminder. You're right; I was very early into this thread, when those comments were still at the top. And also the mobile app I use doesn't have a down vote button, so my "I want to react" urge had to go through a new comment instead of the voting itself. I'll flip over to chrome and down vote there next time.

Audoenus 7y ago

This site is turning into reddit

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mbostleman 7y ago

I think the fact that your foundation of historical context requires a need to consult Wikipedia to know who/what T. Boone Pickens was is a good predictor of that negative knee-jerk response given popular culture today as so much of it relies on minimal historical context.

codesushi42 7y ago

Don't come here for the political commentary. Do it for the technical commentary. At least when it is not completely incorrect bullshit. But the latter has always been an issue here. And there's still enough insight to keep me coming back.