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I guess it's like anything programming related. Things don't make sense until they make sense. Bash's syntax is a bit rough at times and I often find myself ha

by nickjj 7y ago

I guess it's like anything programming related. Things don't make sense until they make sense. Bash's syntax is a bit rough at times and I often find myself having to Google things even though I know what I want to do at a conceptual level. But the real magic isn't just Bash alone. It's combining it with Unix tools to pipe together programs to solve problems. I guess at the end of the day no one has tried to fix it because they don't see it as a problem. Despite the syntax weirdness at times it's a pretty concise language which meshes well with writing ad-hoc things on the command line. IMO Bash is often the best tool to use for a ton of different problems. Sometimes it's good for a final result and sometimes it's good to flesh out a prototype because you can hack something together so fast.

toyg 7y ago
The real advantage it has is simply that it’s there, always. It enjoyed a network effect a long time ago and is now so entrenched that challengers have a mountain to climb - entire generations of professionals know how to get stuff done with it and expect it to be there from the start, so any system that goes with an alternative is at an immediate disadvantage. A few OSes are trying to push what are effectively incremental updates (like ksh on OpenBSD), but it’s a daring proposition. I like OpenBSD but still the first thing I do is switch back to bash, because there are so many other things on the todo list that dealing with an unfamiliar shell is both incredibly low priority and the first thing I’m forced to do - a perfect “demotivational” combo. I fear it would take a massive coordinated switch, systemd-like, where an entire ecosystem moves to an alternative, to actually see any change in this area.
- nickjj 7y ago
  > The real advantage it has is simply that it’s there, always. Yes, this is a huge deal in a good way. It's also why standalone zero dependency Python scripts are so successful since most systems have Python installed by default. Although after reading your first sentence, I got excited. I thought you were going to write about how it's always there in the sense that if you're working in the terminal, Bash and friends are always right there at your finger tips. There's no context switch to get something done, which is super empowering for hacking together things to solve a problem. It just feels like the whole terminal environment in general was made to let tinkerers create the best possible system / workflows for them personally.

by nickjj 7y ago

toyg 7y ago

The real advantage it has is simply that it’s there, always. It enjoyed a network effect a long time ago and is now so entrenched that challengers have a mountain to climb - entire generations of professionals know how to get stuff done with it and expect it to be there from the start, so any system that goes with an alternative is at an immediate disadvantage. A few OSes are trying to push what are effectively incremental updates (like ksh on OpenBSD), but it’s a daring proposition. I like OpenBSD but still the first thing I do is switch back to bash, because there are so many other things on the todo list that dealing with an unfamiliar shell is both incredibly low priority and the first thing I’m forced to do - a perfect “demotivational” combo. I fear it would take a massive coordinated switch, systemd-like, where an entire ecosystem moves to an alternative, to actually see any change in this area.

nickjj 7y ago
> The real advantage it has is simply that it’s there, always. Yes, this is a huge deal in a good way. It's also why standalone zero dependency Python scripts are so successful since most systems have Python installed by default. Although after reading your first sentence, I got excited. I thought you were going to write about how it's always there in the sense that if you're working in the terminal, Bash and friends are always right there at your finger tips. There's no context switch to get something done, which is super empowering for hacking together things to solve a problem. It just feels like the whole terminal environment in general was made to let tinkerers create the best possible system / workflows for them personally.