4 ms·

As an American citizen living in Switzerland, it's somewhat of an impertinence that I'm essentially limited to using one bank - Post Finance - when Germany and

by zhdc1 7y ago

As an American citizen living in Switzerland, it's somewhat of an impertinence that I'm essentially limited to using one bank - Post Finance - when Germany and a number of other countries with large expat populations here now ask for and receive the same information on their citizens. Edit: I also want to add that you're referring to income taxes. Several European countries collect wealth tax on global assets.

huhtenberg 7y ago
> limited to using one bank An easy solution is to trade your US citizenship to a Swiss one. It takes just 5 years on permit C. > Several European countries collect wealth tax on global assets. Including Switzerland.
- zahllos 7y ago
  > It takes just 5 years on permit C This is accurate, however, you need to spend at least 5 years in Switzerland to apply for a C permit and have been resident a minimum of 10 years in Switzerland in total, including the last 5 continuously. You'll also need to meet minimum cantonal and communal residency requirements, so if you move canton or even communue at 9 years 11 months, you'll probably have to wait another few years. The process itself will take a few years also. After all that, you are still defined as a "US Person" for tax purposes and thus banks are required to disclose your information to the US. US Persons are any person with tax liability to the US. You're tax-liable as a citizen (also as a green card holder or possibly a married partner of a US citizen). So having spend 12-13 years minimum in Switzerland to get a passport, you then have to give up your US passport, which will take time and is also permanent. Usually it doesn't take 12-13 years minimum with stringent residency requirements and the requirement to learn a foreign language to open a bank account ;) All that said, it is my understanding that the PostFinance-only thing was a reaction to the Credit Suisse fine from 2014. After that, Swiss banks closed accounts and mortgages of Americans without warning as a way to avoid any future risk - a bit extreme, but they were in a legal pickle: Swiss law prohibits them from disclosing account information to anyone not at the bank and includes custodial sentences for the disclosing employee. There was thus no mechanism for disclosure to the US that was actually (at the time) legal in Switzerland. This has been remedied. Banking secrecy still exists, but banks are allowed to transfer information to the Confederation (Swiss Federal Government) and the Confederation can of course then transmit it onward to the relevant parties. Even more bizarrely, the whole FATCA issue was mostly about wealthy US residents using offshore tax havens to avoid taxes, not your average expat who simply wants a bank account. I believe that US expats can now open accounts at Swiss banks other than PostFinance again, although I caveat that statement by saying I'm not a US person.
  - huhtenberg 7y ago
    It's between 10 and 11 years rather than 12-13, but, regardless of that, I was still just making a joke.
kenneth 7y ago
As a Swiss citizen who immigrated to the USA to study, it's an impertinence that I had to lose all my Swiss bank accounts because they found out I had touched the tainted land and I was no longer worth keeping as a customer. Jokes aside, I totally understand why after the botched 2009 issue, Swiss banks just don't want to deal with Americans. We got screwed hard by the DOJ, and were bullied into going against our core principles. I don't have a lot of empathy for Americans not being able to get Swiss bank accounts after the USA fucked us over like that.
- shkkmo 7y ago
  > I don't have a lot of empathy for Americans not being able to get Swiss bank accounts after the USA fucked us over like that. Why not? We don't blame the Swiss for this. This is clearly the fault of the US government and I think we can have sympathy with each other for being screwed over by one of the most powerful organizations on the planet.

by zhdc1 7y ago

huhtenberg 7y ago

> limited to using one bank An easy solution is to trade your US citizenship to a Swiss one. It takes just 5 years on permit C. > Several European countries collect wealth tax on global assets. Including Switzerland.

zahllos 7y ago
> It takes just 5 years on permit C This is accurate, however, you need to spend at least 5 years in Switzerland to apply for a C permit and have been resident a minimum of 10 years in Switzerland in total, including the last 5 continuously. You'll also need to meet minimum cantonal and communal residency requirements, so if you move canton or even communue at 9 years 11 months, you'll probably have to wait another few years. The process itself will take a few years also. After all that, you are still defined as a "US Person" for tax purposes and thus banks are required to disclose your information to the US. US Persons are any person with tax liability to the US. You're tax-liable as a citizen (also as a green card holder or possibly a married partner of a US citizen). So having spend 12-13 years minimum in Switzerland to get a passport, you then have to give up your US passport, which will take time and is also permanent. Usually it doesn't take 12-13 years minimum with stringent residency requirements and the requirement to learn a foreign language to open a bank account ;) All that said, it is my understanding that the PostFinance-only thing was a reaction to the Credit Suisse fine from 2014. After that, Swiss banks closed accounts and mortgages of Americans without warning as a way to avoid any future risk - a bit extreme, but they were in a legal pickle: Swiss law prohibits them from disclosing account information to anyone not at the bank and includes custodial sentences for the disclosing employee. There was thus no mechanism for disclosure to the US that was actually (at the time) legal in Switzerland. This has been remedied. Banking secrecy still exists, but banks are allowed to transfer information to the Confederation (Swiss Federal Government) and the Confederation can of course then transmit it onward to the relevant parties. Even more bizarrely, the whole FATCA issue was mostly about wealthy US residents using offshore tax havens to avoid taxes, not your average expat who simply wants a bank account. I believe that US expats can now open accounts at Swiss banks other than PostFinance again, although I caveat that statement by saying I'm not a US person.
- huhtenberg 7y ago
  It's between 10 and 11 years rather than 12-13, but, regardless of that, I was still just making a joke.

kenneth 7y ago

As a Swiss citizen who immigrated to the USA to study, it's an impertinence that I had to lose all my Swiss bank accounts because they found out I had touched the tainted land and I was no longer worth keeping as a customer. Jokes aside, I totally understand why after the botched 2009 issue, Swiss banks just don't want to deal with Americans. We got screwed hard by the DOJ, and were bullied into going against our core principles. I don't have a lot of empathy for Americans not being able to get Swiss bank accounts after the USA fucked us over like that.

shkkmo 7y ago
> I don't have a lot of empathy for Americans not being able to get Swiss bank accounts after the USA fucked us over like that. Why not? We don't blame the Swiss for this. This is clearly the fault of the US government and I think we can have sympathy with each other for being screwed over by one of the most powerful organizations on the planet.