5 ms·

Any way to turn it off? Or perhaps block a specific domain via pihole?

sjwright 7y ago
Don’t let your TV access the internet at all. Smart TV interfaces are almost uniformly worse than set top boxes (one or more of: bad UI, slow CPU, weird quirks, few updates) so you should avoid it anyway. The current Apple TV (which I cite only because of familiarity) has a great UI, every major app, and robust HDMI-CEC support so you might never have to touch your TV’s remote again. And Apple respects your privacy.
- rodgerd 7y ago
  Some smart TVs will join open networks if you don't give them one. And I expect that if 5G works as advertised you'll see surveillance capitalism adding 5G connectivity so you no longer have control over connectivity.
  - rangibaby 7y ago
    > And I expect that if 5G works as advertised you'll see surveillance capitalism adding 5G connectivity so you no longer have control over connectivity. That's nothing a roll of tinfoil can't fix
    - sjwright 7y ago
      Unscrew the back of your TV, the internal Wi-Fi antennas may well be be easily identified and disconnected. e.g. https://emfaction.userecho.com/communities/1/topics/124-disabling-wireless-signals-from-samsung-smart-tv https://emfaction.userecho.com/communities/1/topics/124-disa...
      - trevyn 7y ago
        Fun fact: If the signal is reasonably strong, Wi-Fi will sometimes still work even with the antenna disconnected.
        leni536 7y ago
        I guess it's much less likely if the exposed antenna connector is properly terminated.
        sjwright 7y ago
        Or maybe grounding it? I bet if you mash a little ball of tinfoil into the connector, any residual chance of it working will evaporate.
        leni536 7y ago
        Who knows? This could make a nice little experiment. 1. Leave the antenna connected 2. Unplug the antenna, leave the connector unterminated. 3. Terminate the connector with ball of tinfoil. 4. Use a proper impedance matched termination. 5. Terminate with a proper impedance as close to the wifi chip as possible 5./b Also cut the antenna trace on the PCB as close to the chip as possible Measure signal strength in all scenarios.
        sjwright 7y ago
        If there is an unwanted and wide-open AP within range of an antenna-less smart TV, you have an unusual problem with countless fun and creative solutions.
  - sjwright 7y ago
    A website that catalogued the misbehaviours of the various smart TV operating systems (and the easiest methods of defeat) would be handy here. E.g. Some TVs will honor wifi off setting. Or alternatively setting the TV to use the Ethernet port. Or if it needs something on the other end, set up old underclocked Raspberry Pi as a basic router/DHCP server that connects to nothing; power it with TV's USB port. If you've got a fancy router, connect it to your network with a fixed IP and firewall deny all packets from/to its IP. If you've got a fancy AP, set up an alternative SSID that connects to an unused VLAN or otherwise routes to nowhere.
    - oger 7y ago
      A Pi-Hole is good to have in every household. Takes minutes to set up and makes sure that queries to unwanted domains end up in the land of /dev/null
      - sjwright 7y ago
        A pi-hole only works against adversaries that rely upon DNS, or haven't been coded to connect directly to "trusted" public DNS servers. (I'm almost astonished that advertising networks haven't switched to using raw IP addresses everywhere.)
        TremendousJudge 7y ago
        You could probably very easily make a list of the "evil" IP addresses if that happened
        tlavoie 7y ago
        You can combine approaches of course. My main in-home DNS, per the DHCP settings on the wi-fi, is a Pi-Hole. Secondary DNS is the pfSense firewall, so nothing's dead in the water if the Raspberry Pi falls over for some reason. The firewall has the same DNS block-lists as the Pi-Hole, but also has subscription lists of IPs to avoid. Most of those are spammers or malware, but can include whatever other category of malfeasance you desire.
  - chopin 7y ago
    This will depend on the jurisdiction. In GDPR land neither of this will fly as you obviously don't have consent. I own an Aldi TV which hasn't set up for internet connection. When I first started it I was greeted with a consent form which I declined. I am pretty sure that the setting I did (no internet) is honored both for PR and GDPR reasons. With 5G, you will have the same problem. And I'd be very reluctant to buy anything stationary which has 5G connectivity.
  - jobigoud 7y ago
    Now we need some DIY guide on how to extract the 5G radio from your TV and turn it into an access point for a laptop.
- somehnguy 7y ago
  In the past I would have agreed with you on the poor quality of smart TVs. My Roku TV shatters all those expectations however, its fantastic. Great UI, plenty fast, no quirks I have found, and updates regularly. I specifically bought a smart TV with Roku instead of whatever software Samsung/Sony is doing for these reasons.
  - alwayslearning0 7y ago
    I guess you ignored all the parents where they said that Roku sells your data.
    - somehnguy 7y ago
      I don't really care, it doesn't affect me in any negative way. I get a TV at a reduced price and they get paid for making great software. My TV doesn't have a camera or microphone so what...they fingerprint what is watched to provide better suggestions for future content? Yeah, cool with me.
- rkop 7y ago
  >And Apple respects your privacy. And you really believe that?
  - sjwright 7y ago
    Pretty much, yes. Because respecting my privacy fits their business model. Consider that even the most trivial thing that makes Apple look bad gets leaked. If Apple was selling your private information, it would have leaked long before now. Also their financial reports show no indication of revenues that could be associated with private information marketing.
    - Yizahi 7y ago
      Nobody sells data, like pay and get hdd with data. They "analyze" it and sell results, or "allow access" for "optimization" of whatever. Or they have "partnership" and "exchange". Or they slightly obscure data (of course insufficiently) and then sell whatever resulted claiming that they don't sell "data". And so on, whole departments work full time on the ways to bullshit regulatory authorities into thinking that they don't sell personal data. (And they here I mean corporations in general). And regarding Apple - I hear this "not their business model" argument often but I see zero real life reasons why it couldn't be but we wouldn't know it. It is like saying that "John only trades tomatoes, it is impossible to him to sell cucumbers, it is not his business model". How is even related, monster corporations have multiple divisions with multiple business models, one doesn't exclude another. PS: this is for the sake of discussion. Personally I also tend to think that Apple collects much less data than FAGM, and there were experiments that indirectly support this theory. I'm thinking about moving to Apple ecosystem but it is rather costly and will cause vendorlock. Not an easy choice.
      - JohnFen 7y ago
        > Nobody sells data, like pay and get hdd with data. They "analyze" it and sell results, or "allow access" for "optimization" of whatever. Yes, I think most people understand this and say "selling data" as shorthand (because, for a lot of people, it's a distinction without a difference).
- paulcarroty 7y ago
  > And Apple respects your privacy. Yeah, exactly for their users in China.
- chrisBob 7y ago
  I have a TCL TV and use my Apple TV exclusively. I was actually really pissed a while back because my in-laws were over and when I came home they told me "For some reason you hadn't connected your TV to the internet. We gave it your wifi password, and now it works!" Thanks. Now I have to change wifi passwords, and the power light on the TV constantly blinks because it thinks it should be connected to the internet, but isn't.
xcgfhgjbjhb 7y ago
We just provided the technology for major TV manufacturers. Most TVs allow you to disable it, although the feature may be called something unintuitive such as "Live Plus".
israrkhan 7y ago
It is not enabled by default. For the first time when you use a TV input, it asks you whether you want to enable it. If you have enabled it, you can opt out from settings later on.
kylemclaren 7y ago
AFAICT Roku sends logs to two separate endpoints, so blocking those visa pihole can give you some protection, however, it's hard to tell if any data is being sent to raw IP addresses.
paulcarroty 7y ago
Create a fake username, setup a proxy with logger and connect your TV to internet via proxy. After couple of days/weeks just analyze all traffic and block strange hosts via /etc/hosts or Pi-hole.

Don’t let your TV access the internet at all. Smart TV interfaces are almost uniformly worse than set top boxes (one or more of: bad UI, slow CPU, weird quirks, few updates) so you should avoid it anyway. The current Apple TV (which I cite only because of familiarity) has a great UI, every major app, and robust HDMI-CEC support so you might never have to touch your TV’s remote again. And Apple respects your privacy.

rodgerd 7y ago
Some smart TVs will join open networks if you don't give them one. And I expect that if 5G works as advertised you'll see surveillance capitalism adding 5G connectivity so you no longer have control over connectivity.
- rangibaby 7y ago
  > And I expect that if 5G works as advertised you'll see surveillance capitalism adding 5G connectivity so you no longer have control over connectivity. That's nothing a roll of tinfoil can't fix
  - sjwright 7y ago
    Unscrew the back of your TV, the internal Wi-Fi antennas may well be be easily identified and disconnected. e.g. https://emfaction.userecho.com/communities/1/topics/124-disabling-wireless-signals-from-samsung-smart-tv https://emfaction.userecho.com/communities/1/topics/124-disa...
    - trevyn 7y ago
      Fun fact: If the signal is reasonably strong, Wi-Fi will sometimes still work even with the antenna disconnected.
      - leni536 7y ago
        I guess it's much less likely if the exposed antenna connector is properly terminated.
        sjwright 7y ago
        Or maybe grounding it? I bet if you mash a little ball of tinfoil into the connector, any residual chance of it working will evaporate.
        leni536 7y ago
        Who knows? This could make a nice little experiment. 1. Leave the antenna connected 2. Unplug the antenna, leave the connector unterminated. 3. Terminate the connector with ball of tinfoil. 4. Use a proper impedance matched termination. 5. Terminate with a proper impedance as close to the wifi chip as possible 5./b Also cut the antenna trace on the PCB as close to the chip as possible Measure signal strength in all scenarios.
      - sjwright 7y ago
        If there is an unwanted and wide-open AP within range of an antenna-less smart TV, you have an unusual problem with countless fun and creative solutions.
- sjwright 7y ago
  A website that catalogued the misbehaviours of the various smart TV operating systems (and the easiest methods of defeat) would be handy here. E.g. Some TVs will honor wifi off setting. Or alternatively setting the TV to use the Ethernet port. Or if it needs something on the other end, set up old underclocked Raspberry Pi as a basic router/DHCP server that connects to nothing; power it with TV's USB port. If you've got a fancy router, connect it to your network with a fixed IP and firewall deny all packets from/to its IP. If you've got a fancy AP, set up an alternative SSID that connects to an unused VLAN or otherwise routes to nowhere.
  - oger 7y ago
    A Pi-Hole is good to have in every household. Takes minutes to set up and makes sure that queries to unwanted domains end up in the land of /dev/null
    - sjwright 7y ago
      A pi-hole only works against adversaries that rely upon DNS, or haven't been coded to connect directly to "trusted" public DNS servers. (I'm almost astonished that advertising networks haven't switched to using raw IP addresses everywhere.)
      - TremendousJudge 7y ago
        You could probably very easily make a list of the "evil" IP addresses if that happened
        tlavoie 7y ago
        You can combine approaches of course. My main in-home DNS, per the DHCP settings on the wi-fi, is a Pi-Hole. Secondary DNS is the pfSense firewall, so nothing's dead in the water if the Raspberry Pi falls over for some reason. The firewall has the same DNS block-lists as the Pi-Hole, but also has subscription lists of IPs to avoid. Most of those are spammers or malware, but can include whatever other category of malfeasance you desire.
- chopin 7y ago
  This will depend on the jurisdiction. In GDPR land neither of this will fly as you obviously don't have consent. I own an Aldi TV which hasn't set up for internet connection. When I first started it I was greeted with a consent form which I declined. I am pretty sure that the setting I did (no internet) is honored both for PR and GDPR reasons. With 5G, you will have the same problem. And I'd be very reluctant to buy anything stationary which has 5G connectivity.
- jobigoud 7y ago
  Now we need some DIY guide on how to extract the 5G radio from your TV and turn it into an access point for a laptop.
somehnguy 7y ago
In the past I would have agreed with you on the poor quality of smart TVs. My Roku TV shatters all those expectations however, its fantastic. Great UI, plenty fast, no quirks I have found, and updates regularly. I specifically bought a smart TV with Roku instead of whatever software Samsung/Sony is doing for these reasons.
- alwayslearning0 7y ago
  I guess you ignored all the parents where they said that Roku sells your data.
  - somehnguy 7y ago
    I don't really care, it doesn't affect me in any negative way. I get a TV at a reduced price and they get paid for making great software. My TV doesn't have a camera or microphone so what...they fingerprint what is watched to provide better suggestions for future content? Yeah, cool with me.
rkop 7y ago
>And Apple respects your privacy. And you really believe that?
- sjwright 7y ago
  Pretty much, yes. Because respecting my privacy fits their business model. Consider that even the most trivial thing that makes Apple look bad gets leaked. If Apple was selling your private information, it would have leaked long before now. Also their financial reports show no indication of revenues that could be associated with private information marketing.
  - Yizahi 7y ago
    Nobody sells data, like pay and get hdd with data. They "analyze" it and sell results, or "allow access" for "optimization" of whatever. Or they have "partnership" and "exchange". Or they slightly obscure data (of course insufficiently) and then sell whatever resulted claiming that they don't sell "data". And so on, whole departments work full time on the ways to bullshit regulatory authorities into thinking that they don't sell personal data. (And they here I mean corporations in general). And regarding Apple - I hear this "not their business model" argument often but I see zero real life reasons why it couldn't be but we wouldn't know it. It is like saying that "John only trades tomatoes, it is impossible to him to sell cucumbers, it is not his business model". How is even related, monster corporations have multiple divisions with multiple business models, one doesn't exclude another. PS: this is for the sake of discussion. Personally I also tend to think that Apple collects much less data than FAGM, and there were experiments that indirectly support this theory. I'm thinking about moving to Apple ecosystem but it is rather costly and will cause vendorlock. Not an easy choice.
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      > Nobody sells data, like pay and get hdd with data. They "analyze" it and sell results, or "allow access" for "optimization" of whatever. Yes, I think most people understand this and say "selling data" as shorthand (because, for a lot of people, it's a distinction without a difference).
paulcarroty 7y ago
> And Apple respects your privacy. Yeah, exactly for their users in China.
chrisBob 7y ago
I have a TCL TV and use my Apple TV exclusively. I was actually really pissed a while back because my in-laws were over and when I came home they told me "For some reason you hadn't connected your TV to the internet. We gave it your wifi password, and now it works!" Thanks. Now I have to change wifi passwords, and the power light on the TV constantly blinks because it thinks it should be connected to the internet, but isn't.

xcgfhgjbjhb 7y ago

We just provided the technology for major TV manufacturers. Most TVs allow you to disable it, although the feature may be called something unintuitive such as "Live Plus".

israrkhan 7y ago

It is not enabled by default. For the first time when you use a TV input, it asks you whether you want to enable it. If you have enabled it, you can opt out from settings later on.

kylemclaren 7y ago

AFAICT Roku sends logs to two separate endpoints, so blocking those visa pihole can give you some protection, however, it's hard to tell if any data is being sent to raw IP addresses.

paulcarroty 7y ago

Create a fake username, setup a proxy with logger and connect your TV to internet via proxy. After couple of days/weeks just analyze all traffic and block strange hosts via /etc/hosts or Pi-hole.