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Once WebAssembly gains APIs to change the DOM quickly and the big JS frameworks switch to WebAssembly for their internal engines, you could make the case for us

by est31 7y ago

Once WebAssembly gains APIs to change the DOM quickly and the big JS frameworks switch to WebAssembly for their internal engines, you could make the case for usage of binary formats like protobuf. IMO this trend of piling on technology after technology to handle bloat instead of designing websites to be lean is wrong but it's certainly the direction we are walking into. Websites will become even more opaque and complex. Definitely not looking forward to it.

AgentOrange1234 7y ago
I don’t think this is a one-or-the-other situation. “Bloat” is a problem on, say, news sites with horrible ads and it’d be great if they kept it lean. Obviously they don’t need webassembly and binary formats. But... there are also incredibly powerful tools (google maps and docs, quake in the browser, streaming services, etc) that push the boundaries, which these kinds of tech will enhance, or make possible in the first place.
ssalka 7y ago
>Once WebAssembly gains APIs to change the DOM quickly and the big JS frameworks switch to WebAssembly for their internal engines Any idea what the timeline for such changes could be? Personally I'd welcome the possibility of compiling complex web apps down to WASM, but I can't see the things you mention happening any time soon
- nojvek 7y ago
  You don’t need webassembly. We already have typed arrays to represent binary data and do fast slices. That’s essentially what flatbuffers is. Slightly larger than protobuf but insanely fast to parse since it doesn’t need to scan the whole file. It’s both memory and CPU efficient. Netflix uses it in their app because TVs can be low powered devices. That’s why Netflix feels so much lighter than amazon, hbo or Hulu. They all freeze my Vizio TV but Netflix is smooth. https://github.com/google/flatbuffers https://github.com/google/flatbuffers
austincheney 7y ago
The browser DOM wouldn’t change simply because you are accessing it from a different language. I really get the impression that people who advocate web assembly as JavaScript replacement do so out of some ignorance of JavaScript and almost complete ignorance of the DOM.
rolltiide 7y ago
I'd like to see protobuf take off, but we're talking 2025, 2028?
- nojvek 7y ago
  https://google.github.io/flatbuffers/ https://google.github.io/flatbuffers/ Is what you want in the browser.
alimbada 7y ago
> Websites will become even more opaque and complex. Definitely not looking forward to it. Why is that an issue? Do websites need to be open source? How many people, including software developers, will actually view the source for a 3rd party website and/or try to debug it? Beyond screen-scraping and learning purposes I don't see a use case for it. I'd be quite happy with my browser(s) downloading and executing binary blobs if it means better usage of my devices' resources and bandwidth.

by est31 7y ago

AgentOrange1234 7y ago

I don’t think this is a one-or-the-other situation. “Bloat” is a problem on, say, news sites with horrible ads and it’d be great if they kept it lean. Obviously they don’t need webassembly and binary formats. But... there are also incredibly powerful tools (google maps and docs, quake in the browser, streaming services, etc) that push the boundaries, which these kinds of tech will enhance, or make possible in the first place.

ssalka 7y ago

>Once WebAssembly gains APIs to change the DOM quickly and the big JS frameworks switch to WebAssembly for their internal engines Any idea what the timeline for such changes could be? Personally I'd welcome the possibility of compiling complex web apps down to WASM, but I can't see the things you mention happening any time soon

nojvek 7y ago
You don’t need webassembly. We already have typed arrays to represent binary data and do fast slices. That’s essentially what flatbuffers is. Slightly larger than protobuf but insanely fast to parse since it doesn’t need to scan the whole file. It’s both memory and CPU efficient. Netflix uses it in their app because TVs can be low powered devices. That’s why Netflix feels so much lighter than amazon, hbo or Hulu. They all freeze my Vizio TV but Netflix is smooth. https://github.com/google/flatbuffers https://github.com/google/flatbuffers

austincheney 7y ago

The browser DOM wouldn’t change simply because you are accessing it from a different language. I really get the impression that people who advocate web assembly as JavaScript replacement do so out of some ignorance of JavaScript and almost complete ignorance of the DOM.

rolltiide 7y ago

I'd like to see protobuf take off, but we're talking 2025, 2028?

nojvek 7y ago
https://google.github.io/flatbuffers/ https://google.github.io/flatbuffers/ Is what you want in the browser.

alimbada 7y ago

> Websites will become even more opaque and complex. Definitely not looking forward to it. Why is that an issue? Do websites need to be open source? How many people, including software developers, will actually view the source for a 3rd party website and/or try to debug it? Beyond screen-scraping and learning purposes I don't see a use case for it. I'd be quite happy with my browser(s) downloading and executing binary blobs if it means better usage of my devices' resources and bandwidth.