11 ms·
This has been known for quite a while, basically passing through the non sterile vaginal canal vs the sterile (or close to it) abdominal wall yields differences
by giarc 7y ago
This has been known for quite a while, basically passing through the non sterile vaginal canal vs the sterile (or close to it) abdominal wall yields differences. This has lead to some questionable practices such as "vaginal seeding" whereby new moms will swab their vagina and then seed their babies shortly after birth (usually through placing the gauze in babies mouth or around their face). This comes up not infrequently at the hospital I work at. I think much of it stems from Facebook rather than actual discussions with their OB.
- bitwize 7y agoYeah, that sounds like a "crunchy Karen" practice...
- oneepic 7y agoI don't want to google "crunchy Karen" at work...can someone post a description here?
- reneherse 7y agoSeems like a misogynist stereotype used to unthinkingly dismiss an argument.
- filoleg 7y agoidk man, I feel kinda ok with dismissing antivax/essential oils/healing crystals theories. Especially considering how many children got harmed (some to the point of death) by "crunchy karens" who decided that they know better than modern medicine and doctors. While every topic deserves to be questioned and not dismissed, some have been argued to death already, and I would feel ok with not getting into an argument about the merit of vaccines for a while.
- wdbbdw 7y agoConflating microbiome interests with antivax mania doesn't make any sense to me, and I agree that "crunchy Karen" is a dismissive sexist tropE, especially in this context. Do any of you have even a passing familiarity with modern microbiome research? It's super fascinating and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.
- dmix 7y agoLast I've read from someone who knew what they are talking about, he said it's still very early and we don't yet know enough to apply treatment level stuff with biomes. A lot of people are optimistic for the future and there's some useful research available currently such as helping identify certain issues, but it's not yet a serious clinical option being pushed anywhere as far as changing or influencing the biome.
- bitwize 7y agoMost of us have heard of it. You can't log into this site and not hear of it. "Gut bacteria" is a square (alongside the likes of "Rust" and "Bitcoin") on my Hackernews bingo card. But there are scientifically validated treatments and then there's folk medicine of unknown safety and effectiveness, and putting gauze swabbed with vagina juice in your baby's mouth sounds a lot like the latter.
- wdbbdw 7y agoI dunno, after having had a front row seat to more than one vaginal birth I'd say that it's implausible to suggest that microbes aren't being transferred (via "vagina juice" and the proverbial "microbial organ", i.e. poop) from mother to baby. Also, having dabbled in microbial ecology in my professional life, I'd say that it's unlikely that said microbial transfer is inconsequential for the gut health of the baby. Doctors don't know everything, and I'd venture that effectively no research on the effects of a cesarian on the baby's gut health was done before the procedure became widespread.
- extipion 7y ago
- bitwize 7y agoGo you for aspiring to the lofty levels of discourse exemplified by places like Tumblr, and immediately flagging expressions they don't like as "sexist" or "misogynistic" without any context for how they're used and who's using them. You missed your chance for bonus good-boy points by using "alt-right" or "incel".
- tyingq 7y agoGuessing "crunchy" means something like "prone to like questionable homeopathic practices" Think long hair, sundresses, sandals, cracked wheat bread, flax seed extract, colonic cleanses, healing crystals, etc. The story, though, might validate this particular practice.
- maxlamb 7y agoit pretty much means a modern-day hippie.
- bitwize 7y ago"Crunchy Karen" is a stock character who advocates dubious medical practices and preaches moralizingly, patronizingly to others to do the same. Where I got the term from is a friend of mine is part of a Facebook support group for women who have particularly unproductive breasts and are tired of being told to risk starving their babies by adopting a breastfeeding-only policy or face moral recriminations.
- core-questions 7y agoYeah, I don't get this. My kids are breast-fed and obviously there's a lot of evidence it's a good idea, but why would I need to shame / bother people who can't do this? It's their loss, if anything.
- aaron695 7y agoSome mother can't, shaming them doesn't help, but the harsh reality is kids will still come out worse off without breast feeding with current technology, irrelevant if the mother is capable or not. It's a line between causing hurt for something unavoidable and promoting something important for when it can be avoided. Public campaigns use shame, the crossover is unavoidable, you can only try to reduce it for when it's not constructive, hence the shame of shaming campaign we are discussing here but it crosses over into the important original shame campaign. Create baby formula that's better than breast milk and we can tech our way out of the whole issue.
- conception 7y agoOthers got the Karen part but crunchy comes from "granola parents" who are doing trendy "health" things.
- wdbbdw 7y agoMichael Pollan wrote [1] about an evolutionary biologist who did this exact thing after his daughter was born via cesarian. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/magazine/say-hello-to-the-100-trillion-bacteria-that-make-up-your-microbiome.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/magazine/say-hello-to-the...
- jasonlotito 7y agoWell, what was known is wrong. The original hypothesis was the bacteria came from the vagina, but this study shows it comes from gut.
- davidsong 7y agoThis is about gut bacteria and debunks the practice of vaginal seeding. I remember my friend and father of five crudely telling an expectant mother that "first comes the poo, then comes the baby" and thinking he was joking until I saw it for myself. This discovery will likely lead to a surge of people intentionally shitting on newborns.
- spraak 7y ago> This discovery will likely lead to a surge of people intentionally shitting on newborns. I am doubtful you really believe that, and it's an untasteful joke.
- tssva 7y agoThe article addresses this practice and states that the bacteria found in babies born vaginally differs from the bacteria found in the vaginal canal this further calling into question this practice. The bacteria instead seems to come from the mother's gut.
- DanBC 7y agoSpecifically, it comes from faecal matter that she expels during the birth.
- Gatsky 7y agoThere is scientific rationale for this, from one of the top medical journals: https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.4039 https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.4039
- DanBC 7y agoThis article is about new research that says the source of useful gut flora is not the vaginal canal, but is in fact from faecal matter from the mother.