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One of the defining aspects of both the Brexit campaign and Trumpism is blatant disregard for facts and the delibirate spread of misinformation that is heavy on

One of the defining aspects of both the Brexit campaign and Trumpism is blatant disregard for facts and the delibirate spread of misinformation that is heavy on one side, and an order or two of magnitude less on the other side. That just is the way of it, however sad that is. It is not the first time that states use misinformation as effective attacks on other states, but that doesn’t mean it should be left unchallenged. This is coming from a citizen of neither the US nor UK and as such a bit of an outsiders perspective, mostly free from domestic politics.

taborj 7y ago
that is heavy on one side, and an order or two of magnitude less on the other side I disagree with this assertion. I think both sides are equally guilty of this, but on different topics, which can make apples to apples comparisons difficult. For example, take a look at the numbers behind gun laws and deaths in the US, and you'll find misinformation propagated by the left. If you look at climate change information, you'll find misinformation propagated by the right.
- Swenrekcah 7y ago
  I agree but I specifically mentioned the topics of Brexit and the admittetly broader ‘Trumpism’. On these topics the asymmetry is phenomenal. Take the recent ‘sharpiegate’ as an example for how little regard, contempt even, Trump has for the truth and facts.
  - afiori 7y ago
    While I agree that Trump has no qualms in lying to cover his mistakes, the left and the media have no qualms in misinterpreting what Trump says and does.
    - Swenrekcah 7y ago
      Some try their best to be fair, I'd like to name the Economist as one. It is unfortunate however that the nature of media monetization encourages inaccurate exaggerations if they make Trump seem even more of a buffoon than he really and truly is. However, we really should put much more pressure on elected officials to be truthful and show of integrity, than we should put on the media or people in general.
      - afiori 7y ago
        > However, we really should put much more pressure on elected officials to be truthful and show of integrity, On this I entirely agree. > than we should put on the media or people in general. Here I agree less. In Italy Journalist is a professional certification, with a selective state exam (I know it is unthinkable in the cultural context of the US) and the possibility of losing it if you violate certain professional values. In this sense, let's look at Boris Johnson. I consider (ethically speaking) his lies as columnist worse than his lies as a politician. Because as a published journalist you hide behind decades of reputation of your news agency. We have a generation of young people that essentially live in a clown world [1] where nothing make sense anymore. While I respect the professional behavior Obama had, populism is needed as a balancing force (that needs not to go out of bounds). [1]: https://img.ifunny.co/images/4be9baf89f4a5d7df72a992f8f942a71700e21ba9bc36a457aa495c1b117b6f7_1.jpg https://img.ifunny.co/images/4be9baf89f4a5d7df72a992f8f942a7...
  - weberc2 7y ago
    (By the way, I didn't downvote you) I agree that Trump has no great respect for truth and facts. I also think the left is doggedly pursuing him in its own anti-factual aspirations. I see your sharpiegate and raise you the Covington Catholic affair (the most prominent news outlets in the country overtly slandering children, ostensibly on the basis of their race and gender) or the Google memo (same idea) or the sokal squared hoax (moderate academics submit patently absurd papers to leftist academic journals and the journals publish them). I could go on and on and I'm sure you could too--that's my point. I would alledge that Trumpism's mirror image is progressive social justice culture.
    - Swenrekcah 7y ago
      A fair point and I certainly agree that the ‘woke’ SJW culture is a terrible idea. I do see the examples you mentioned as legitimate differences of opinion, somewhat like the abortion debate or other controversial and digficult topics. Everyone succumbs, at least occasionally, to making a bad faith argument in support of their stance on those issues. In contrast, and that was in part why I chose that example from the other 1000 this month, Trump’s sharpie drawing shows an utter disregard for facts, no consideration for spreading misinformation during an emergency, and complete ignorance of and/or indifference for the law. All to ‘save face’ for such a tiny idiotic non-issue. There is real asymmetry here.
makomk 7y ago
It's more, from what I've seen, that one of the definining aspects of the war on misinformation is that it's a tactic against both Trump and Brexit - and that caring about the other side's disregard for facts is therefore spun as helping the spread of misinformation. For instance, the Washington Post quite rightly dinged Bernie Sanders recently for misrepresenting stats to make it look like his flagship policy on healthcare would save hundreds of thousands of Americans from bankrupcy. Sanders doubled down on his original claim and attacked the fact check. Parts of the press sided with him, claiming that the fact checkers were the one attacking facts by making such a big deal about this: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/11/democrats-fact-checking-1489135 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/11/democrats-fact-che... One even accused them of harming democracy itself: https://www.wgbh.org/news/commentary/2019/09/18/fact-checking-in-the-age-of-trump-why-false-equivalence-is-harming-democracy https://www.wgbh.org/news/commentary/2019/09/18/fact-checkin...

taborj 7y ago

that is heavy on one side, and an order or two of magnitude less on the other side I disagree with this assertion. I think both sides are equally guilty of this, but on different topics, which can make apples to apples comparisons difficult. For example, take a look at the numbers behind gun laws and deaths in the US, and you'll find misinformation propagated by the left. If you look at climate change information, you'll find misinformation propagated by the right.

Swenrekcah 7y ago
I agree but I specifically mentioned the topics of Brexit and the admittetly broader ‘Trumpism’. On these topics the asymmetry is phenomenal. Take the recent ‘sharpiegate’ as an example for how little regard, contempt even, Trump has for the truth and facts.
- afiori 7y ago
  While I agree that Trump has no qualms in lying to cover his mistakes, the left and the media have no qualms in misinterpreting what Trump says and does.
  - Swenrekcah 7y ago
    Some try their best to be fair, I'd like to name the Economist as one. It is unfortunate however that the nature of media monetization encourages inaccurate exaggerations if they make Trump seem even more of a buffoon than he really and truly is. However, we really should put much more pressure on elected officials to be truthful and show of integrity, than we should put on the media or people in general.
    - afiori 7y ago
      > However, we really should put much more pressure on elected officials to be truthful and show of integrity, On this I entirely agree. > than we should put on the media or people in general. Here I agree less. In Italy Journalist is a professional certification, with a selective state exam (I know it is unthinkable in the cultural context of the US) and the possibility of losing it if you violate certain professional values. In this sense, let's look at Boris Johnson. I consider (ethically speaking) his lies as columnist worse than his lies as a politician. Because as a published journalist you hide behind decades of reputation of your news agency. We have a generation of young people that essentially live in a clown world [1] where nothing make sense anymore. While I respect the professional behavior Obama had, populism is needed as a balancing force (that needs not to go out of bounds). [1]: https://img.ifunny.co/images/4be9baf89f4a5d7df72a992f8f942a71700e21ba9bc36a457aa495c1b117b6f7_1.jpg https://img.ifunny.co/images/4be9baf89f4a5d7df72a992f8f942a7...
- weberc2 7y ago
  (By the way, I didn't downvote you) I agree that Trump has no great respect for truth and facts. I also think the left is doggedly pursuing him in its own anti-factual aspirations. I see your sharpiegate and raise you the Covington Catholic affair (the most prominent news outlets in the country overtly slandering children, ostensibly on the basis of their race and gender) or the Google memo (same idea) or the sokal squared hoax (moderate academics submit patently absurd papers to leftist academic journals and the journals publish them). I could go on and on and I'm sure you could too--that's my point. I would alledge that Trumpism's mirror image is progressive social justice culture.
  - Swenrekcah 7y ago
    A fair point and I certainly agree that the ‘woke’ SJW culture is a terrible idea. I do see the examples you mentioned as legitimate differences of opinion, somewhat like the abortion debate or other controversial and digficult topics. Everyone succumbs, at least occasionally, to making a bad faith argument in support of their stance on those issues. In contrast, and that was in part why I chose that example from the other 1000 this month, Trump’s sharpie drawing shows an utter disregard for facts, no consideration for spreading misinformation during an emergency, and complete ignorance of and/or indifference for the law. All to ‘save face’ for such a tiny idiotic non-issue. There is real asymmetry here.

makomk 7y ago

It's more, from what I've seen, that one of the definining aspects of the war on misinformation is that it's a tactic against both Trump and Brexit - and that caring about the other side's disregard for facts is therefore spun as helping the spread of misinformation. For instance, the Washington Post quite rightly dinged Bernie Sanders recently for misrepresenting stats to make it look like his flagship policy on healthcare would save hundreds of thousands of Americans from bankrupcy. Sanders doubled down on his original claim and attacked the fact check. Parts of the press sided with him, claiming that the fact checkers were the one attacking facts by making such a big deal about this: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/11/democrats-fact-checking-1489135 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/11/democrats-fact-che... One even accused them of harming democracy itself: https://www.wgbh.org/news/commentary/2019/09/18/fact-checking-in-the-age-of-trump-why-false-equivalence-is-harming-democracy https://www.wgbh.org/news/commentary/2019/09/18/fact-checkin...