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What is stopping Twitter from releasing server logs for others to independently authenticate attribution? Facebook, Google have not declared. The ASPI analysis

What is stopping Twitter from releasing server logs for others to independently authenticate attribution? Facebook, Google have not declared. The ASPI analysis proceeds on assumption that Twitters attribution is correct. The startup Digital Intelligence concludes confidently "China has made its debut as a confirmed information operations actor" because the bots coordinated behavior "emulat[es] divisive disinformation tactics seen in other disinformation campaigns from Russia and Iran". That said, the take away from both analysis is that 30 (DI) - 112 (ASPI) of the ~900 accounts have high likelihood of being an disinformation network... that operated for over 2 years, using many re-purposed spam/dating/escort/porn accounts that was never sanitized to preserve cover. Evaluate the scale and operational rigor of this network and it's hard to conclude this is state-level tradecraft than some independent agent/contractor with limited resources and basic scripting knowledge. Leave it to NYT to sneak in balance at the end with inflammatory headline. >Elise Thomas, one of the authors of the Australian report, said that the low level of professionalism suggested that the campaign was not the work of the People’s Liberation Army or the Ministry of State Security, which have previously been linked to Chinese cyberespionage and information campaigns. >“I would be surprised if the P.L.A. was responsible because I would expect they would be more competent than this,” Ms. Thomas said. Yeah. Look, China is bad at foreign influence campaigns, but this is insultingly bad. I'm completely willing to believe China has expanded propaganda efforts abroad, but this doesn't feel like it. E: unsurprisingly people are already using the article to accusing others of being bots. Because humans writing and replying unique responses are equivalent to automated bots that copy and base tweets on a schedule.

RobertRoberts 7y ago
I watched a few videos of a western man living in China (married to a Chinese woman). Their views on propaganda, information, privacy, leadership, marketing, power structures, etc... are all so vastly different from ours that it's almost unbelievable until you hear about it first hand. China's propaganda style is unabashedly similar to "Baghdad Bob". [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf
- dirtyid 7y ago
  I hope this isn't an endorsement of serpentza or laowhy86, bitter expats with middle school mandarin proficiency flunking out of China are not insightful sources. There are millions of Chinese diaspora who lived in both Chinese and western cultures with much more useful things to say. Here are recent studies on how domestic and foreign Chinese propaganda works. How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction, not Engaged Argument https://datasociety.net/events/databite-no-94-jennifer-pan/ https://datasociety.net/events/databite-no-94-jennifer-pan/ Beyond Hybrid War: How China Exploits Social Media to Sway American Opinion https://www.recordedfuture.com/china-social-media-operations/ https://www.recordedfuture.com/china-social-media-operations... Overlapping findings of both reports is that Chinese propaganda focus on overwhelmingly positive, benign messaging i.e. it placates and downplays instead of argue, attack or antagonize. Both also suggest 50c doesn't operate outside of China. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese foreign influence has expanded. I hope it would at least be closer to meme-able Baghdad Bob than whatever low-effort campaign that twitter alleges.
  - mistermann 7y ago
    I really enjoy laowhy86's wife's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzAxQ3vGD6Unk1GyxjJ9bmg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzAxQ3vGD6Unk1GyxjJ9bmg The other guy's channels are in fact insightful, but hers is more interesting because she was born and raised there, but also has relatives in HK and an American husband. She is completely unemotionally attached to all the propaganda and nonsense so it's fun to hear her take on these things.
    - dirtyid 7y ago
      I will give these a view later, TY.
  - RobertRoberts 7y ago
    I think it's useful to hear multiple sides to an argument, and to dismiss one side of an argument with ad hominem attacks, like you just did, only demonstrates how vital it is to hear various sides of a situation.
yorwba 7y ago
> some independent agent/contractor with limited resources and basic scripting knowledge. Outsourcing seems likely. Last month an invitation for bids was posted for a contract to promote Chinese state media on Twitter for 1.2 million yuan, payable if the follower count increased by at least 580,000 at the end of the contract period. [1] Some people have framed it as "China openly buys followers", but it seems clear that whoever came up with the contract intended for those followers to be real people, since a propaganda account is pretty useless if it's only read by bots. Of course the successful bidder would be likely to try and add some fake accounts if they couldn't hit the target otherwise. Someone seems to have realized that and pulled the announcement, which is why I had to use an archive.org link. This spam campaign might have been similar; with a contract to spread propaganda messages that lacked the necessary safeguards to ensure subtlety. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20190822113315/http://www.ccgp.gov.cn/cggg/dfgg/zbgg/201908/t20190816_12699714.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20190822113315/http://www.ccgp.g...
- dirtyid 7y ago
  The question is, is this the kind of activity China would outsource to this quality? This recklessly on a sensitive topic like HK so close to 80th anniversary. Was it that time-sensitive / desperate to allow something this amateurish to roll out. They're paying millions buying advertisement in foreign newspapers, I'd expect an social median influence operation would get more funding than 100 poorly cultivated bot accounts. Services for hitting western social media KPIs are dime a dozen, but a private industry for foreign influence campaigns not so much. Maybe those Estonian fake news kids. Would be interesting to see what that tender would look like though, at least they're paying more than 50c.

RobertRoberts 7y ago

I watched a few videos of a western man living in China (married to a Chinese woman). Their views on propaganda, information, privacy, leadership, marketing, power structures, etc... are all so vastly different from ours that it's almost unbelievable until you hear about it first hand. China's propaganda style is unabashedly similar to "Baghdad Bob". [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf

dirtyid 7y ago
I hope this isn't an endorsement of serpentza or laowhy86, bitter expats with middle school mandarin proficiency flunking out of China are not insightful sources. There are millions of Chinese diaspora who lived in both Chinese and western cultures with much more useful things to say. Here are recent studies on how domestic and foreign Chinese propaganda works. How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction, not Engaged Argument https://datasociety.net/events/databite-no-94-jennifer-pan/ https://datasociety.net/events/databite-no-94-jennifer-pan/ Beyond Hybrid War: How China Exploits Social Media to Sway American Opinion https://www.recordedfuture.com/china-social-media-operations/ https://www.recordedfuture.com/china-social-media-operations... Overlapping findings of both reports is that Chinese propaganda focus on overwhelmingly positive, benign messaging i.e. it placates and downplays instead of argue, attack or antagonize. Both also suggest 50c doesn't operate outside of China. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese foreign influence has expanded. I hope it would at least be closer to meme-able Baghdad Bob than whatever low-effort campaign that twitter alleges.
- mistermann 7y ago
  I really enjoy laowhy86's wife's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzAxQ3vGD6Unk1GyxjJ9bmg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzAxQ3vGD6Unk1GyxjJ9bmg The other guy's channels are in fact insightful, but hers is more interesting because she was born and raised there, but also has relatives in HK and an American husband. She is completely unemotionally attached to all the propaganda and nonsense so it's fun to hear her take on these things.
  - dirtyid 7y ago
    I will give these a view later, TY.
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  I think it's useful to hear multiple sides to an argument, and to dismiss one side of an argument with ad hominem attacks, like you just did, only demonstrates how vital it is to hear various sides of a situation.

yorwba 7y ago

> some independent agent/contractor with limited resources and basic scripting knowledge. Outsourcing seems likely. Last month an invitation for bids was posted for a contract to promote Chinese state media on Twitter for 1.2 million yuan, payable if the follower count increased by at least 580,000 at the end of the contract period. [1] Some people have framed it as "China openly buys followers", but it seems clear that whoever came up with the contract intended for those followers to be real people, since a propaganda account is pretty useless if it's only read by bots. Of course the successful bidder would be likely to try and add some fake accounts if they couldn't hit the target otherwise. Someone seems to have realized that and pulled the announcement, which is why I had to use an archive.org link. This spam campaign might have been similar; with a contract to spread propaganda messages that lacked the necessary safeguards to ensure subtlety. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20190822113315/http://www.ccgp.gov.cn/cggg/dfgg/zbgg/201908/t20190816_12699714.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20190822113315/http://www.ccgp.g...

dirtyid 7y ago
The question is, is this the kind of activity China would outsource to this quality? This recklessly on a sensitive topic like HK so close to 80th anniversary. Was it that time-sensitive / desperate to allow something this amateurish to roll out. They're paying millions buying advertisement in foreign newspapers, I'd expect an social median influence operation would get more funding than 100 poorly cultivated bot accounts. Services for hitting western social media KPIs are dime a dozen, but a private industry for foreign influence campaigns not so much. Maybe those Estonian fake news kids. Would be interesting to see what that tender would look like though, at least they're paying more than 50c.