4 ms·

These guys are heroes.

by kd3 7y ago

tpmx 7y ago
I used to think that. Then I tried volunteering via their IRC channel and was met with some next level hostility. My read is: a) They're doing a job that needs to be done. b) They're relatively flush with cash from donors c) They're not nearly as efficient as they could be. d) The people there seemed more concerned about competition than collaboration. e) Probably most controversial: The organization seems like it has stagnated.
- aleph- 7y ago
  Are we talking about internet archive or archive team? Different groups/orgs.
  - tpmx 7y ago
    Edit: Hmm. Honestly not sure if it was IA or archiveteam. I think IA.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    So what's the relationship between IA, the Archive Team, and the Wayback Machine? I am totally confused who is who here.
    - scrollaway 7y ago
      The Wayback Machine is a project by Archive.org to archive the internet and allow users to browse old versions of pages. The Archive Team is a community of archivists who do their own thing, but frequently contribute their collections back to Archive.org. There's a lot of cross-pollination between the two.
- ineedasername 7y ago
  How did you approach them, what did you ask to help with? Not saying you did this, but there's a big difference between "hey folks, how can I help?" compared to "I noticed your page load times are ridiculous, I can get you to a place that isn't awful".
  - tpmx 7y ago
    I introduced myself, told them about my background/experience. [Hyper relevant to the field, with architectural experience of services with 10-100X the amount of traffic of the IA wayback machine got (probably), working around mechanical HD latencies on a very large scale, etc.] No response. So, I went on to my largest pet peeve: The insanely bad response times for the IA wayback machine. I got temporarily kicked from the channel for that. After that I didn't really have the motivation to go back there. (And yeah their page load times are still ridiculous, like 15 years after the launch, for the archive.)
    - jeromegv 7y ago
      So your anecdote happened 15 years ago?
      - tpmx 7y ago
        No, it happened 2-3 years ago. I was taking a break from working at the time. I wanted to do something meaningful. Like contributing to the IA.
  - scrollaway 7y ago
    FWIW this is a fairly common experience. Jason Scott is quite famously a problematic guy. "But", he volunteers an insane amount so he gets a pass on a lot of his antics (hands up if you've heard that story before). Getting kicked out of the IRC channel for pissing him off for basically anything is frequent. I used to hang out on IRC and saw it happen a lot. Eventually happened to me as well (couple years ago). I didn't go back; it's not worth putting up with him. Didn't stop me from contributing to the archive / AT / archival communities; in fact, shortly after I got kicked out, I was invited by someone else to a jason-scott-free community I contributed to for a while.
    - tpmx 7y ago
      That resonates a lot with my experience :/. Now he's employed by the IA, so not volunteering, right?
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  ArchiveTeam is NOT the Internet Archive, though the two groups work closely. If you hit the AT's IRC channel, you probably got bounced or told to go to the discussion side channel. The main ArchiveTeam channel on Efnet is basically for "the house is on fire" emergencies. Normally you'll be asked to bounce to the chat/discussion channel. That may be inconsistently applied. I worked with ArchiveTeam in the G+ shutdown process and have only fantastic things to say about them. Highly competent, considerate, and GTD/GSD.
  - tpmx 7y ago
    As Googler (?) working to give them data you were presumably not "competing" with them. Kind of a separate kind of sitatuation.
    - dredmorbius 7y ago
      Clarifying: I am not / have never worked at or for Google. I was a G+ user, and helped coordinate the exodus and information ("plexodus").
      - tpmx 7y ago
        Ah, ok.
- kd3 7y ago
  Don't know about the organization, but their ux and tech could definitely use some updates to bring it to 2019 levels of expectation. Aside from that, we are lucky to have them.
  - dgellow 7y ago
    Oh no, please! The 2019 level of expectation is at minimum 500KB of JavaScript, for an overkill single page application, and terrible user experience.

These guys are heroes.

by kd3 7y ago

These guys are heroes.

tpmx 7y ago

I used to think that. Then I tried volunteering via their IRC channel and was met with some next level hostility. My read is: a) They're doing a job that needs to be done. b) They're relatively flush with cash from donors c) They're not nearly as efficient as they could be. d) The people there seemed more concerned about competition than collaboration. e) Probably most controversial: The organization seems like it has stagnated.

aleph- 7y ago
Are we talking about internet archive or archive team? Different groups/orgs.
- tpmx 7y ago
  Edit: Hmm. Honestly not sure if it was IA or archiveteam. I think IA.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  So what's the relationship between IA, the Archive Team, and the Wayback Machine? I am totally confused who is who here.
  - scrollaway 7y ago
    The Wayback Machine is a project by Archive.org to archive the internet and allow users to browse old versions of pages. The Archive Team is a community of archivists who do their own thing, but frequently contribute their collections back to Archive.org. There's a lot of cross-pollination between the two.
ineedasername 7y ago
How did you approach them, what did you ask to help with? Not saying you did this, but there's a big difference between "hey folks, how can I help?" compared to "I noticed your page load times are ridiculous, I can get you to a place that isn't awful".
- tpmx 7y ago
  I introduced myself, told them about my background/experience. [Hyper relevant to the field, with architectural experience of services with 10-100X the amount of traffic of the IA wayback machine got (probably), working around mechanical HD latencies on a very large scale, etc.] No response. So, I went on to my largest pet peeve: The insanely bad response times for the IA wayback machine. I got temporarily kicked from the channel for that. After that I didn't really have the motivation to go back there. (And yeah their page load times are still ridiculous, like 15 years after the launch, for the archive.)
  - jeromegv 7y ago
    So your anecdote happened 15 years ago?
    - tpmx 7y ago
      No, it happened 2-3 years ago. I was taking a break from working at the time. I wanted to do something meaningful. Like contributing to the IA.
- scrollaway 7y ago
  FWIW this is a fairly common experience. Jason Scott is quite famously a problematic guy. "But", he volunteers an insane amount so he gets a pass on a lot of his antics (hands up if you've heard that story before). Getting kicked out of the IRC channel for pissing him off for basically anything is frequent. I used to hang out on IRC and saw it happen a lot. Eventually happened to me as well (couple years ago). I didn't go back; it's not worth putting up with him. Didn't stop me from contributing to the archive / AT / archival communities; in fact, shortly after I got kicked out, I was invited by someone else to a jason-scott-free community I contributed to for a while.
  - tpmx 7y ago
    That resonates a lot with my experience :/. Now he's employed by the IA, so not volunteering, right?
dredmorbius 7y ago
ArchiveTeam is NOT the Internet Archive, though the two groups work closely. If you hit the AT's IRC channel, you probably got bounced or told to go to the discussion side channel. The main ArchiveTeam channel on Efnet is basically for "the house is on fire" emergencies. Normally you'll be asked to bounce to the chat/discussion channel. That may be inconsistently applied. I worked with ArchiveTeam in the G+ shutdown process and have only fantastic things to say about them. Highly competent, considerate, and GTD/GSD.
- tpmx 7y ago
  As Googler (?) working to give them data you were presumably not "competing" with them. Kind of a separate kind of sitatuation.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Clarifying: I am not / have never worked at or for Google. I was a G+ user, and helped coordinate the exodus and information ("plexodus").
    - tpmx 7y ago
      Ah, ok.
kd3 7y ago
Don't know about the organization, but their ux and tech could definitely use some updates to bring it to 2019 levels of expectation. Aside from that, we are lucky to have them.
- dgellow 7y ago
  Oh no, please! The 2019 level of expectation is at minimum 500KB of JavaScript, for an overkill single page application, and terrible user experience.