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If you're going to hire a developer for their first job, don't think twice. Developers without degrees are better than developers with degress in 100% of the ca

If you're going to hire a developer for their first job, don't think twice. Developers without degrees are better than developers with degress in 100% of the cases. If they don't have a degree that means they've learned something without being forced to, they love the subject and are genuinely interested.

cortesoft 7y ago
100% of the cases? That is absurd.
rezz 7y ago
Yes generally interested in six figure salaries with relatively low entry barrier.
Pete-Codes 7y ago
Yeah, I have to be honest. If you've taught yourself to code whilst working as a waitress you are going to be motivated like hell!
MisterBastahrd 7y ago
Right. Because no degreed devs ever learned something without being forced to. They just put guns to our heads once we willingly decided to go to school for CS and tortured us all those hours we spend developing side projects for fun.
SonOfKyuss 7y ago
In my first-hand experience doing hiring, for every coding savant who doesn't need a CS degree, there are 10 others who just want a shortcut to SWE $$$ but don't have what it takes (motivation, skills, whatever) to get a degree. For better or for worse, when you're working your way through a stack of 100 resumes, having a degree is an easy filter.
- sodafountan 7y ago
  I've probably looked at hundreds of resumes and I can't recall ever seeing someone list their education credentials at the top, it's always their work experience first unless they don't have much professional experience and I've rarely been a position to hire junior developers. Unless you're going through some Nazi-era HR department then I probably won't even make it to the last page of your resume before deciding whether you're worth interviewing or passing on. And by the way, if you're part of the 9 in 10 developers who don't have a degree and aren't cut out for development then your resume won't even make it to my desk, that's what the recruiters filter out. All of that being said I'm not sure who you worked for but sorting through 100 resumes seems like a colossal waste of time. Lifehack: Just tell the recruitment firm "Give Me Your Top 5" and that's that.
  - SonOfKyuss 7y ago
    > All of that being said I'm not sure who you worked for but sorting through 100 resumes seems like a colossal waste of time. Lifehack: Just tell the recruitment firm "Give Me Your Top 5" and that's that. You're right. The filtering is/was done by recruiting, but I had some insight into their general content. And yes, education is almost never at the top for senior positions. At that point it is mostly irrelevant. My comment was a response to OPs statement that 100% of non-degreed candidates are better than those with degrees because they are more motivated. This is certainly not the case for entry level positions which is what I was referring to.
sixstringtheory 7y ago
What about people like me who taught themselves to code long before they even knew CS was a thing? All I knew is that my family had a computer and I had somehow peeked behind the GUI veil when I discovered DOS. I wound up researching in a CS program because I found it interesting and just kept wanting more.
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  > taught themselves to code long before they even knew CS was a thing It seems like things are changing a bit, but back when I was in college in the late 80’s/early 90’s, this was almost everybody in the CS program. I don’t think I took a CS course with anybody who didn’t grow up banging on a C64 or Apple II or TRS-80 and hadn’t figured out quite a bit about software development concepts before they even learned algebra. It does seem like the ubiquity of computers is changing this, though: computers are everywhere, but they’re so much more like consumer devices now that they’re paradoxically hard to figure out _how_ to program.
themoonbus 7y ago
On the flip side, in college you learn why stating something is true 100% of the time can be problematic.
rootusrootus 7y ago
Negative on that. I started coding as a tween and spent so much time (frequently through the night) coding that I compromised my chances of escaping high school with a diploma. After a couple years of figuring out how to adult, I went and got my CS degree. Because I loved coding and computers, of course, it was the obvious choice.
pb7 7y ago
Formal education would have taught you better critical thinking than this.

cortesoft 7y ago

100% of the cases? That is absurd.

rezz 7y ago

Yes generally interested in six figure salaries with relatively low entry barrier.

Pete-Codes 7y ago

Yeah, I have to be honest. If you've taught yourself to code whilst working as a waitress you are going to be motivated like hell!

MisterBastahrd 7y ago

Right. Because no degreed devs ever learned something without being forced to. They just put guns to our heads once we willingly decided to go to school for CS and tortured us all those hours we spend developing side projects for fun.

SonOfKyuss 7y ago

In my first-hand experience doing hiring, for every coding savant who doesn't need a CS degree, there are 10 others who just want a shortcut to SWE $$$ but don't have what it takes (motivation, skills, whatever) to get a degree. For better or for worse, when you're working your way through a stack of 100 resumes, having a degree is an easy filter.

sodafountan 7y ago
I've probably looked at hundreds of resumes and I can't recall ever seeing someone list their education credentials at the top, it's always their work experience first unless they don't have much professional experience and I've rarely been a position to hire junior developers. Unless you're going through some Nazi-era HR department then I probably won't even make it to the last page of your resume before deciding whether you're worth interviewing or passing on. And by the way, if you're part of the 9 in 10 developers who don't have a degree and aren't cut out for development then your resume won't even make it to my desk, that's what the recruiters filter out. All of that being said I'm not sure who you worked for but sorting through 100 resumes seems like a colossal waste of time. Lifehack: Just tell the recruitment firm "Give Me Your Top 5" and that's that.
- SonOfKyuss 7y ago
  > All of that being said I'm not sure who you worked for but sorting through 100 resumes seems like a colossal waste of time. Lifehack: Just tell the recruitment firm "Give Me Your Top 5" and that's that. You're right. The filtering is/was done by recruiting, but I had some insight into their general content. And yes, education is almost never at the top for senior positions. At that point it is mostly irrelevant. My comment was a response to OPs statement that 100% of non-degreed candidates are better than those with degrees because they are more motivated. This is certainly not the case for entry level positions which is what I was referring to.

sixstringtheory 7y ago

What about people like me who taught themselves to code long before they even knew CS was a thing? All I knew is that my family had a computer and I had somehow peeked behind the GUI veil when I discovered DOS. I wound up researching in a CS program because I found it interesting and just kept wanting more.

commandlinefan 7y ago
> taught themselves to code long before they even knew CS was a thing It seems like things are changing a bit, but back when I was in college in the late 80’s/early 90’s, this was almost everybody in the CS program. I don’t think I took a CS course with anybody who didn’t grow up banging on a C64 or Apple II or TRS-80 and hadn’t figured out quite a bit about software development concepts before they even learned algebra. It does seem like the ubiquity of computers is changing this, though: computers are everywhere, but they’re so much more like consumer devices now that they’re paradoxically hard to figure out _how_ to program.

themoonbus 7y ago

On the flip side, in college you learn why stating something is true 100% of the time can be problematic.

rootusrootus 7y ago

Negative on that. I started coding as a tween and spent so much time (frequently through the night) coding that I compromised my chances of escaping high school with a diploma. After a couple years of figuring out how to adult, I went and got my CS degree. Because I loved coding and computers, of course, it was the obvious choice.

pb7 7y ago

Formal education would have taught you better critical thinking than this.