5 ms·

I don't follow could you explain?

by danaur 7y ago

onemoresoop 7y ago
What's the point of going to school then if not to expose you to things and make you a better, more knowledgeable, well rounded person? If only grades matter then you can buy a fake diploma and you're done with it. You may be aware that you don't need to go to college in order to be a software developer/hacker. But if you decide to do that then what's the point in faking the grades?
- IG_Semmelweiss 7y ago
  THis is a very disingenuous comment. >>>>>> What's the point of going to school then if not to expose you to things and make you a better, more knowledgeable, well rounded person? The point of U, which seems forgotten at this point, is that it enhances your career options. You are not learning for the sake of being "well rounded". You are learning because it may lead to a future career. Anyone that thinks you pay to become more well rounded, will failsthis test: Would anyone willingly pay $6k-$30k to spend the time to take LIBERAL ART classes in an avg university for a year, if that institution is not credentialed ? The answer is a resounding NO. Because no one prioritizes such LIBERAL arts content, they prioritize the credentials (diploma) obtained or specific technical skills. As such, there very little to no value (at least in the low $x000s) to said exposure. This reveals this exposure is not at the core of the value of U. It is only there as a relic of the past. There is no demand for it. If the supply of funds for higher ED was not subsidized, the majority of said courses would go extinct within a decade (and the universities that offer them) >>>>>>If only grades matter then you can buy a fake diploma and you're done with it. You are blatantly ignoring the risk associated with doing , which carries a lifetime of penalties. If one can eliminate said risk for 80k in subsidized debt, while having fun, drinking beer, and dare i say learning a thing or two, why not do it? >>>>>>You may be aware that you don't need to go to college yes, this is why enrollments keep going down and will continue to do so. But does opting out of U have to fight back decade-old cultural perceptions passed on by our parents and grandparents that college is the thing you are supposed to do to have a solid career. Setting that cultural expectation on fire will take some time, it won't happen overnight, and will certainly reshape U as we know it today.
- satyrnein 7y ago
  If grades don't matter, why did you show up for the exam?
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    They quite clearly said that it's not just grades that matter. Also, you'd show up to the exam so you don't suffer the university's consequences like academic probation and scholarship forfeiture, even if you were somehow "anti grade," whatever specious mindset you are envisioning. Besides, I don't think anyone making their point would suggest that you shouldn't try to make good grades, which involves learning a subject well enough, including doing the boring work, to get a good mark. I agree with them. If grades are the only thing you care about such that you'd be fine with paying an insider for a diploma without doing the work, then I'd say you wasted the entirely opportunity and only exercised your ability to cheat and be dishonest.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  > What's the point of going to school then if not to expose you to things and make you a better, more knowledgeable, well rounded person? To get the really expensive piece of paper that lets you through the HR gatekeeping.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  I've seen a lot of jobs where the basic role was to circumvent laws/regulations and otherwise get past obstacles. Using zoning regulations and court maneouvers to block competitors from developing businesses, lobbying for certain laws and exemptions, etc.
- stale2002 7y ago
  Unfortunately, there truly isn't a point to many of the things we do in education, especially at the college level. I went to college because I wanted to get a job as a high paid software engineer. And although many of the class that I took, did indeed help me with this goal, many of them that I had to take did not. It would have been awesome if I could have replaced some of my required classes that weren't particularly useful, with more focused ones on web development, and industry related.
Loughla 7y ago
The theory of higher education and a liberal arts degree, is what I'm assuming OP is talking about. The idea of a liberal arts degree at a university is to create a well-rounded individual. The idea of taking classes outside your major is to learn about life. The idea of even going to college (which is ENTIRELY optional) is to learn. Not just to pass classes and get an A. This is something that, traditionally, CS and Engineering students like to shit on - as an example, see the other post about Sociology being useless. The thing is, there are boot camps and trade schools to learn job skills. People are now attending University and complaining about the 'gen ed' courses in their degree because they're not "useful for my future". This is meant to be "not job skills directly connected to what I think I want to grow up to be". They aren't supposed to get you a job. They're not job skills programs. They're liberal arts programs. They're supposed to make you into a fully realized human. Those other general courses exist because many students enter college not knowing what their passions are, right or wrong. Source: My career in higher education. One thing has been constant in the decades that I've worked in this field - Engineering and CS students complain about and shit on the 'gen. ed' classes more than any other major. They also don't like hearing that they can just go to trade school or a boot camp if they just want job skills training; which makes no sense to me - trade school is cheaper, and boot camps are shorter in duration.
- sylk 7y ago
  I get where your coming from, but with college being so expensive why would I want to pay to be a well rounded individual? It's a waste of resources, I'd rather pay for something that gets me a job. I know too many "WELL ROUNDED" individuals since that's what you've called them, that make next to dust for a paycheck. But good thing they have their spirits and each other, cause it sure does suck being poor alone.
- jerf 7y ago
  "trade school is cheaper, and boot camps are shorter in duration." Right now, they are quite inferior. Not because they are necessarily bad, but just, they don't last long enough to cover what a computer science education does. (Being in mind I am aware that "computer science" and "programming" aren't even really the same thing.) I think, without judging it good or bad, if something could fill in the gulf between the 4-year rounded degree and its computer programming content and the 8-week bootcamp a lot of people would be interested in it, but there's a lot of activation energy required there. When I took computer science 20 years ago, it was only marginally related to "programming", and it has gotten much worse since then, because "programming" hasn't exactly changed but all the stuff around it has. "Deploying" used to be copying over the directory full of .ASP or .PHP files and maybe restarting the server, not committing to source control, handling a PR, running through CI, open source compliance analysis, and sundry other automated things, to be package up to something that we use devops tools to manage deploying, etc. etc. I'd love a new graduate who came to me with enough programming skills to prove they can do it, but knew source control, monitoring, basic commit hygiene, and the dozen other skills you need to have nowadays to get anything released to the public. You'll learn none of that in college. And I'm not even saying you necessarily "should". But you definitely don't.

I don't follow could you explain?

by danaur 7y ago

I don't follow could you explain?

What's the point of going to school then if not to expose you to things and make you a better, more knowledgeable, well rounded person? If only grades matter then you can buy a fake diploma and you're done with it. You may be aware that you don't need to go to college in order to be a software developer/hacker. But if you decide to do that then what's the point in faking the grades?

IG_Semmelweiss 7y ago
THis is a very disingenuous comment. >>>>>> What's the point of going to school then if not to expose you to things and make you a better, more knowledgeable, well rounded person? The point of U, which seems forgotten at this point, is that it enhances your career options. You are not learning for the sake of being "well rounded". You are learning because it may lead to a future career. Anyone that thinks you pay to become more well rounded, will failsthis test: Would anyone willingly pay $6k-$30k to spend the time to take LIBERAL ART classes in an avg university for a year, if that institution is not credentialed ? The answer is a resounding NO. Because no one prioritizes such LIBERAL arts content, they prioritize the credentials (diploma) obtained or specific technical skills. As such, there very little to no value (at least in the low $x000s) to said exposure. This reveals this exposure is not at the core of the value of U. It is only there as a relic of the past. There is no demand for it. If the supply of funds for higher ED was not subsidized, the majority of said courses would go extinct within a decade (and the universities that offer them) >>>>>>If only grades matter then you can buy a fake diploma and you're done with it. You are blatantly ignoring the risk associated with doing , which carries a lifetime of penalties. If one can eliminate said risk for 80k in subsidized debt, while having fun, drinking beer, and dare i say learning a thing or two, why not do it? >>>>>>You may be aware that you don't need to go to college yes, this is why enrollments keep going down and will continue to do so. But does opting out of U have to fight back decade-old cultural perceptions passed on by our parents and grandparents that college is the thing you are supposed to do to have a solid career. Setting that cultural expectation on fire will take some time, it won't happen overnight, and will certainly reshape U as we know it today.
satyrnein 7y ago
If grades don't matter, why did you show up for the exam?
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  They quite clearly said that it's not just grades that matter. Also, you'd show up to the exam so you don't suffer the university's consequences like academic probation and scholarship forfeiture, even if you were somehow "anti grade," whatever specious mindset you are envisioning. Besides, I don't think anyone making their point would suggest that you shouldn't try to make good grades, which involves learning a subject well enough, including doing the boring work, to get a good mark. I agree with them. If grades are the only thing you care about such that you'd be fine with paying an insider for a diploma without doing the work, then I'd say you wasted the entirely opportunity and only exercised your ability to cheat and be dishonest.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
> What's the point of going to school then if not to expose you to things and make you a better, more knowledgeable, well rounded person? To get the really expensive piece of paper that lets you through the HR gatekeeping.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
I've seen a lot of jobs where the basic role was to circumvent laws/regulations and otherwise get past obstacles. Using zoning regulations and court maneouvers to block competitors from developing businesses, lobbying for certain laws and exemptions, etc.
stale2002 7y ago
Unfortunately, there truly isn't a point to many of the things we do in education, especially at the college level. I went to college because I wanted to get a job as a high paid software engineer. And although many of the class that I took, did indeed help me with this goal, many of them that I had to take did not. It would have been awesome if I could have replaced some of my required classes that weren't particularly useful, with more focused ones on web development, and industry related.

Loughla 7y ago

The theory of higher education and a liberal arts degree, is what I'm assuming OP is talking about. The idea of a liberal arts degree at a university is to create a well-rounded individual. The idea of taking classes outside your major is to learn about life. The idea of even going to college (which is ENTIRELY optional) is to learn. Not just to pass classes and get an A. This is something that, traditionally, CS and Engineering students like to shit on - as an example, see the other post about Sociology being useless. The thing is, there are boot camps and trade schools to learn job skills. People are now attending University and complaining about the 'gen ed' courses in their degree because they're not "useful for my future". This is meant to be "not job skills directly connected to what I think I want to grow up to be". They aren't supposed to get you a job. They're not job skills programs. They're liberal arts programs. They're supposed to make you into a fully realized human. Those other general courses exist because many students enter college not knowing what their passions are, right or wrong. Source: My career in higher education. One thing has been constant in the decades that I've worked in this field - Engineering and CS students complain about and shit on the 'gen. ed' classes more than any other major. They also don't like hearing that they can just go to trade school or a boot camp if they just want job skills training; which makes no sense to me - trade school is cheaper, and boot camps are shorter in duration.

sylk 7y ago
I get where your coming from, but with college being so expensive why would I want to pay to be a well rounded individual? It's a waste of resources, I'd rather pay for something that gets me a job. I know too many "WELL ROUNDED" individuals since that's what you've called them, that make next to dust for a paycheck. But good thing they have their spirits and each other, cause it sure does suck being poor alone.
jerf 7y ago
"trade school is cheaper, and boot camps are shorter in duration." Right now, they are quite inferior. Not because they are necessarily bad, but just, they don't last long enough to cover what a computer science education does. (Being in mind I am aware that "computer science" and "programming" aren't even really the same thing.) I think, without judging it good or bad, if something could fill in the gulf between the 4-year rounded degree and its computer programming content and the 8-week bootcamp a lot of people would be interested in it, but there's a lot of activation energy required there. When I took computer science 20 years ago, it was only marginally related to "programming", and it has gotten much worse since then, because "programming" hasn't exactly changed but all the stuff around it has. "Deploying" used to be copying over the directory full of .ASP or .PHP files and maybe restarting the server, not committing to source control, handling a PR, running through CI, open source compliance analysis, and sundry other automated things, to be package up to something that we use devops tools to manage deploying, etc. etc. I'd love a new graduate who came to me with enough programming skills to prove they can do it, but knew source control, monitoring, basic commit hygiene, and the dozen other skills you need to have nowadays to get anything released to the public. You'll learn none of that in college. And I'm not even saying you necessarily "should". But you definitely don't.