4 ms·

That is not what Stallman said.

DanBC 7y ago
Yes it is. Here he says the word "assaulting" is wrong: > The injustice is in the word “assaulting”. The term “sexual assault” is so vague and slippery that it facilitates accusation inflation: taking claims that someone did X and leading people to think of it as Y, which is much worse than X. And here he says it's wrong because assault means force or violence: > The word “assaulting” presumes that he applied force or violence, in some unspecified way, but the article itself says no such thing. Only that they had sex. Here's where he denies this was rape: > I think it is morally absurd to define "rape" in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17. This is in response to someone saying that having sex with someone who is 17 in the Virgin Islands is rape.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  Having sex with someone who is consenting, and is able to give informed consent, is neither assault nor rape "in the English language". In law it depends on the jurisdiction. As I mentioned, having sex with someone underage does not necessarily constitute rape though is usually constitutes "sexual assault". The USA are rather conservative with both a relatively 'old' age of consent and statutory rape laws. This can lead to ridiculous situations like labeling someone "rapist" just for having consensual sex with a 17 year old... One issue, which might have been part of Stallman's point, is that people tend to want to use only black and white terms in all circumstances, even when the reality is much more nuanced.
- lawnchair_larry 7y ago
  No, he didn’t. Read his email. The context here is critical. He’s simply saying that the young woman’s claim, who was acting as a “masseuse”, is that Epstein directed her to engage in sexual activity with Minsky. But Epstein didn’t direct her to do this in front of Minsky, so Minsky likely had no idea that Epstein coerced her. So, we shouldn’t assume that Minsky is a rapist if he had no idea that she was not willing. If I threatened to kill a woman if she did not show up where I knew that you would be, seduce you, and have sex with you, does that make you a rapist? It’s certainly wrong, which Stallman acknowledged, while also saying Epstein should be in jail, but it’s not clear that you’re culpable. I think that would make me the criminal, not you. It hasn’t even been established that Minsky accepted her advances. Her only claim is that Epstein directed her to do it, not that it happened. A witness said Minsky declined her advances. Minsky is no longer alive. So given what we know, it is not appropriate to say Minsky raped or assaulted anyone, whether the act even happened or not.

Yes it is. Here he says the word "assaulting" is wrong: > The injustice is in the word “assaulting”. The term “sexual assault” is so vague and slippery that it facilitates accusation inflation: taking claims that someone did X and leading people to think of it as Y, which is much worse than X. And here he says it's wrong because assault means force or violence: > The word “assaulting” presumes that he applied force or violence, in some unspecified way, but the article itself says no such thing. Only that they had sex. Here's where he denies this was rape: > I think it is morally absurd to define "rape" in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17. This is in response to someone saying that having sex with someone who is 17 in the Virgin Islands is rape.

mytailorisrich 7y ago
Having sex with someone who is consenting, and is able to give informed consent, is neither assault nor rape "in the English language". In law it depends on the jurisdiction. As I mentioned, having sex with someone underage does not necessarily constitute rape though is usually constitutes "sexual assault". The USA are rather conservative with both a relatively 'old' age of consent and statutory rape laws. This can lead to ridiculous situations like labeling someone "rapist" just for having consensual sex with a 17 year old... One issue, which might have been part of Stallman's point, is that people tend to want to use only black and white terms in all circumstances, even when the reality is much more nuanced.
lawnchair_larry 7y ago
No, he didn’t. Read his email. The context here is critical. He’s simply saying that the young woman’s claim, who was acting as a “masseuse”, is that Epstein directed her to engage in sexual activity with Minsky. But Epstein didn’t direct her to do this in front of Minsky, so Minsky likely had no idea that Epstein coerced her. So, we shouldn’t assume that Minsky is a rapist if he had no idea that she was not willing. If I threatened to kill a woman if she did not show up where I knew that you would be, seduce you, and have sex with you, does that make you a rapist? It’s certainly wrong, which Stallman acknowledged, while also saying Epstein should be in jail, but it’s not clear that you’re culpable. I think that would make me the criminal, not you. It hasn’t even been established that Minsky accepted her advances. Her only claim is that Epstein directed her to do it, not that it happened. A witness said Minsky declined her advances. Minsky is no longer alive. So given what we know, it is not appropriate to say Minsky raped or assaulted anyone, whether the act even happened or not.