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Sigh. The recent drone attacks on infrastructure in Saudi Arabia have dramatically changed things. A single drone dispensing small cluster sub-munitions could

Sigh. The recent drone attacks on infrastructure in Saudi Arabia have dramatically changed things. A single drone dispensing small cluster sub-munitions could destroy a large swath of solar panels. I fear that large-scale asymmetric warfare will become more common, especially in the volatile Middle East.

cooljacob204 7y ago
Not really... Solar panel farms are spread out and huge. And oil refinery are much smaller and have some very valuable parts you can specifically target. Any drone big enough to carry 'small cluster sub-munitions' to do any sort of serious damage to a solar farm will be big enough to get noticed immediately by the military. Couldn't even dent 1% of the panels with what was used in Saudi Arabia.
smaddox 7y ago
Maybe... But a single drone could much more easily put a coal, oil, or natural gas power plant out of commission. How is this relevant?
- SamBam 7y ago
  I mean, seriously, it sounds like the opposite. The events in Saudi Arabia have shown how much more vulnerable oil is, with the production pipeline going through much smaller (in terms of m^2) bottlenecks. You could wipe out millions of gallons/day of production with a well-placed strike, affecting the entire global market, while solar farms are much bigger (a hit will wipe out a smaller percentage) and the effects are more localized.
  - HillaryBriss 7y ago
    It would be too easy for electro-terrorists to stop production at the solar park: four drones (one on each corner) could simply airlift a rectangular 3x4 mile opaque tarp from Sudan or outer space and drop it over the panels. Probably only take 15 minutes. Drones and tarps are available for a low price on Amazon. This is a scary possibility. Egypt must fund anti-drone defenses today!
    - SamBam 7y ago
      You need to delete this comment before the terrorists find out about this possibility.
    - schoen 7y ago
      At the risk of spoiling the joke, just curious about how powerful the drones will have to be... https://www.tarpsplus.com/blue-poly-tarp-sold-individually.html https://www.tarpsplus.com/blue-poly-tarp-sold-individually.h... "3.5 oz. Per Square Yrd." You have: 3 mi 4 mi 3.5 oz/yd^2 You want: kg * 3688250.3 So each drone should be able to lift about a gigagram. (Also, this plastic doesn't have enough tensile strength to support its own weight when lifted from the corners.)
      - HillaryBriss 7y ago
        Good point! The plan needs refinement. I guess they could break the job down: use one team of 4 drones to lift multiple 1 square yard tarps. Let's see, 12 square miles is roughly 37 million square yards. Multiplying by four they would only need about 150 million drones. Quite affordable for today's well-funded terrorist with an Amazon Prime account (as long as they choose 3-5 business day shipping instead of overnight).
    - Merrill 7y ago
      The standard approach, as was used in Iraq, is to dispense foil streamers or other conductive chaff over the substations. The US used airplanes, but these days drones could do the job. Or you could use a drone to tow a copper wire across one of the high-voltage distribution power lines. If done on enough lines at the same time the sudden decrease in load may cause the generators to overspeed.
      - Merrill 7y ago
        The Weapon that Disabled Iraq’s Power Grid https://cyberarms.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/the-weapon-that-disabled-iraqs-power-grid/ https://cyberarms.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/the-weapon-that-d...
pjc50 7y ago
It's probably less vulnerable than any other concentrated form of power generation. Hands up those who'd like to see Egypt finish their nuclear program and build a nuclear reactor within drone range? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Egypt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Egypt

cooljacob204 7y ago

Not really... Solar panel farms are spread out and huge. And oil refinery are much smaller and have some very valuable parts you can specifically target. Any drone big enough to carry 'small cluster sub-munitions' to do any sort of serious damage to a solar farm will be big enough to get noticed immediately by the military. Couldn't even dent 1% of the panels with what was used in Saudi Arabia.

smaddox 7y ago

Maybe... But a single drone could much more easily put a coal, oil, or natural gas power plant out of commission. How is this relevant?

SamBam 7y ago
I mean, seriously, it sounds like the opposite. The events in Saudi Arabia have shown how much more vulnerable oil is, with the production pipeline going through much smaller (in terms of m^2) bottlenecks. You could wipe out millions of gallons/day of production with a well-placed strike, affecting the entire global market, while solar farms are much bigger (a hit will wipe out a smaller percentage) and the effects are more localized.
- HillaryBriss 7y ago
  It would be too easy for electro-terrorists to stop production at the solar park: four drones (one on each corner) could simply airlift a rectangular 3x4 mile opaque tarp from Sudan or outer space and drop it over the panels. Probably only take 15 minutes. Drones and tarps are available for a low price on Amazon. This is a scary possibility. Egypt must fund anti-drone defenses today!
  - SamBam 7y ago
    You need to delete this comment before the terrorists find out about this possibility.
  - schoen 7y ago
    At the risk of spoiling the joke, just curious about how powerful the drones will have to be... https://www.tarpsplus.com/blue-poly-tarp-sold-individually.html https://www.tarpsplus.com/blue-poly-tarp-sold-individually.h... "3.5 oz. Per Square Yrd." You have: 3 mi 4 mi 3.5 oz/yd^2 You want: kg * 3688250.3 So each drone should be able to lift about a gigagram. (Also, this plastic doesn't have enough tensile strength to support its own weight when lifted from the corners.)
    - HillaryBriss 7y ago
      Good point! The plan needs refinement. I guess they could break the job down: use one team of 4 drones to lift multiple 1 square yard tarps. Let's see, 12 square miles is roughly 37 million square yards. Multiplying by four they would only need about 150 million drones. Quite affordable for today's well-funded terrorist with an Amazon Prime account (as long as they choose 3-5 business day shipping instead of overnight).
  - Merrill 7y ago
    The standard approach, as was used in Iraq, is to dispense foil streamers or other conductive chaff over the substations. The US used airplanes, but these days drones could do the job. Or you could use a drone to tow a copper wire across one of the high-voltage distribution power lines. If done on enough lines at the same time the sudden decrease in load may cause the generators to overspeed.
    - Merrill 7y ago
      The Weapon that Disabled Iraq’s Power Grid https://cyberarms.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/the-weapon-that-disabled-iraqs-power-grid/ https://cyberarms.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/the-weapon-that-d...

pjc50 7y ago

It's probably less vulnerable than any other concentrated form of power generation. Hands up those who'd like to see Egypt finish their nuclear program and build a nuclear reactor within drone range? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Egypt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Egypt