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Vladimir Nabokov was a native speaker in both languages. he grew up with English-speaking nurses, governesses, etc aroun him... He also spoke French fluently, a

Vladimir Nabokov was a native speaker in both languages. he grew up with English-speaking nurses, governesses, etc aroun him... He also spoke French fluently, as all Russian nobility did. Additional fact: he learned to read in English first, Russian next. Not to mention his years in Cambridge, UK. TL;DR he probably spoke English better than most native speakers do nowadays.

raverbashing 7y ago
Thanks, TIL. > TL;DR he probably spoke English better than most native speakers do nowadays. True, especially "internet English" which is abysmal.
jelliclesfarm 7y ago
Nabokov was also supposed to have experienced synesthesia*. 2 thoughts: 1. Nabokov’s synesthesia was largely why..IMO..made his writing captivating. The first sentence of Lolita makes you gasp. It ‘hits’ you where you didn’t expect it and you like it. The subject matter of Lolita was likely secondary to the synesthetic appeal of the language of Nabokov. It’s is a linguistic neural dissonance. It reminds of Szechuan peppers in Hunan/Szechuan cuisine. The addition of which gives you a numbing tingling sensation to the inside of your mouth. It is called ‘mala’ in mandarin. It is also said to cause neurological dissonance especially when used with spicy foods. Szechuan peppers themselves are not peppers but from the citrus family. They are often used with hot peppers..often mildly hot peppers but the numbing/tingling sensation makes the eater think that they are eating something super spicy ..far more spicier than it really is..and the body reacts with watering eyes and increased heartbeat and that endorphin rush associated with eating capsaicin. It’s the same thing reading Nabokov. You expect to read a story and you are entirely bowled over by the sensory aspect of his language. Even though Lolita is his most popular work, he has written so much more. Pale Fire, Speak, Memory, Real life of Sebastian Knight.. 2. My second thought is that authors who are non native English speakers/writers have remarkably rich vocabulary that is super descriptive. English is not a voluptuous language. Others that come to mind are Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Neruda, Borges, Italo Cavalo, Umberto Eco, Marukami, Junichiro Tanizaki and the many Asian languages to English translations. Something lyrical in these languages is beautiful transmitted into English..a quality that English itself doesn’t seem to possess. On a slightly different note: older languages like Sanskrit and the even earlier like epic of Gilgamesh relied on meter. As our speaking faculties expanded to accommodate more experiences and senses..and as we became more musical, language evolved too. It is the most beautiful evolution of the human state and we barely pay attention to language’s evolution. I also think Germans shouldn’t be translating anything to English or anything from any other language to English. I don’t know German but I can often tell if any translation has had a translator remotely connected to the language. The language doesn’t lend itself to fluidity and nimbleness. Altho I have read some translations of Carl Jung’s Red Book from High German to English that intrigued and somewhat appealed to me. I don’t know if it was the translator or Jung’s language/words itself. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia + http://nabokovsecrethistory.com/news/nabokovs-synesthesia-and-memory/ http://nabokovsecrethistory.com/news/nabokovs-synesthesia-an... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_synesthesia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_synesthe... : List of people with synesthesia
- bcbrown 7y ago
  > Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Neruda, Borges, Italo Cavalo, Umberto Eco, Marukami, Junichiro Tanizaki I know and love all those authors, but have never heard of Junichiro Tanizaki. Where should I start with him?
  - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
    I would suggest The Makioka Sisters. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Makioka_Sisters https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Makioka_Sisters https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun'ichirō_Tanizaki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun'ichirō_Tanizaki
fastball 7y ago
Yes, and obviously OC speaks English fluently as well. I'm not suggesting rural German farmers should start authoring novels in English. I'm suggesting that someone who A. already knows how to competently (I hope) write novels in one language and B. is fluent in a second language should perhaps consider blending the two if they are not finding enough demand for their chosen occupation in their native tongue. I realize this analogy is a little bit strained, but this would be like me saying, as someone that has known Python for 10+ years, I should not attempt to compete with the JS programmers who have been doing JS for 10+ years because I've only been working with JS for about 2 years. But obviously I don't think that way and I don't behave that way, because I want to make a living in my chosen profession. So I follow the demand, and where my skills are in need of improvement, I improve them.

raverbashing 7y ago

Thanks, TIL. > TL;DR he probably spoke English better than most native speakers do nowadays. True, especially "internet English" which is abysmal.

jelliclesfarm 7y ago

Nabokov was also supposed to have experienced synesthesia*. 2 thoughts: 1. Nabokov’s synesthesia was largely why..IMO..made his writing captivating. The first sentence of Lolita makes you gasp. It ‘hits’ you where you didn’t expect it and you like it. The subject matter of Lolita was likely secondary to the synesthetic appeal of the language of Nabokov. It’s is a linguistic neural dissonance. It reminds of Szechuan peppers in Hunan/Szechuan cuisine. The addition of which gives you a numbing tingling sensation to the inside of your mouth. It is called ‘mala’ in mandarin. It is also said to cause neurological dissonance especially when used with spicy foods. Szechuan peppers themselves are not peppers but from the citrus family. They are often used with hot peppers..often mildly hot peppers but the numbing/tingling sensation makes the eater think that they are eating something super spicy ..far more spicier than it really is..and the body reacts with watering eyes and increased heartbeat and that endorphin rush associated with eating capsaicin. It’s the same thing reading Nabokov. You expect to read a story and you are entirely bowled over by the sensory aspect of his language. Even though Lolita is his most popular work, he has written so much more. Pale Fire, Speak, Memory, Real life of Sebastian Knight.. 2. My second thought is that authors who are non native English speakers/writers have remarkably rich vocabulary that is super descriptive. English is not a voluptuous language. Others that come to mind are Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Neruda, Borges, Italo Cavalo, Umberto Eco, Marukami, Junichiro Tanizaki and the many Asian languages to English translations. Something lyrical in these languages is beautiful transmitted into English..a quality that English itself doesn’t seem to possess. On a slightly different note: older languages like Sanskrit and the even earlier like epic of Gilgamesh relied on meter. As our speaking faculties expanded to accommodate more experiences and senses..and as we became more musical, language evolved too. It is the most beautiful evolution of the human state and we barely pay attention to language’s evolution. I also think Germans shouldn’t be translating anything to English or anything from any other language to English. I don’t know German but I can often tell if any translation has had a translator remotely connected to the language. The language doesn’t lend itself to fluidity and nimbleness. Altho I have read some translations of Carl Jung’s Red Book from High German to English that intrigued and somewhat appealed to me. I don’t know if it was the translator or Jung’s language/words itself. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia + http://nabokovsecrethistory.com/news/nabokovs-synesthesia-and-memory/ http://nabokovsecrethistory.com/news/nabokovs-synesthesia-an... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_synesthesia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_synesthe... : List of people with synesthesia

bcbrown 7y ago
> Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Neruda, Borges, Italo Cavalo, Umberto Eco, Marukami, Junichiro Tanizaki I know and love all those authors, but have never heard of Junichiro Tanizaki. Where should I start with him?
- jelliclesfarm 7y ago
  I would suggest The Makioka Sisters. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Makioka_Sisters https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Makioka_Sisters https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun'ichirō_Tanizaki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun'ichirō_Tanizaki

fastball 7y ago

Yes, and obviously OC speaks English fluently as well. I'm not suggesting rural German farmers should start authoring novels in English. I'm suggesting that someone who A. already knows how to competently (I hope) write novels in one language and B. is fluent in a second language should perhaps consider blending the two if they are not finding enough demand for their chosen occupation in their native tongue. I realize this analogy is a little bit strained, but this would be like me saying, as someone that has known Python for 10+ years, I should not attempt to compete with the JS programmers who have been doing JS for 10+ years because I've only been working with JS for about 2 years. But obviously I don't think that way and I don't behave that way, because I want to make a living in my chosen profession. So I follow the demand, and where my skills are in need of improvement, I improve them.