3 ms·

> One of the persistent rationalizations for not creating new software in Perl is that it's difficult to find great Perl developers. One of the persistent rati

by lelele 16y ago

> One of the persistent rationalizations for not creating new software in Perl is that it's difficult to find great Perl developers. One of the persistent rationalizations of Perl mongers is that Perl still has that much of an edge. If it's difficult to find great Perl developers, that's because less great developers flock to Perl (if at all, maybe current great Perl developers are people who have learned Perl some time ago). It is that simple. Perl in its days used to be a great language for those who looked for a "creative" one to learn, and allowed to do things other languages didn't. PG has said Perl was a language for hackers. Nowadays, there are way more options if you are looking for a learning experience, and I dare to say that many alternatives are way more rewarding than learning Perl, and have a much better effort/learning ratio. In the same time you are memorizing what value every standard function returns in what context, you could be composing functions in Haskell or building massively concurrent Erlang systems. Heck, even the humble Javascript allows you to perform mind-bending dynamic feats. Other languages offer multiplatform support (native, Java, .NET) which Perl lacks.

chromatic 16y ago
If it's difficult to find great Perl developers, that's because [fewer] great developers flock to Perl. I would like to see non-anecdotal evidence for this. Heck, even the humble Javascript allows you to perform mind-bending dynamic feats. It's also borrowing features Perl has had for years. Hm. Other languages offer multiplatform support (native, Java, .NET) which Perl lacks. That definition of "multiplatform" differs from mine. Perl 5 runs on more platforms than the CLR and JVM do.
- Dove 16y ago
  Perl 5 runs on more platforms than the CLR and JVM do. In theory. In practice, if it runs on one JVM, it runs on any JVM. No questions asked. Perl is full of, "Oops, that crashes on Windows" traps. If you know where they all are, you can avoid them, but it's hard to be sure you've found the last one. The fact that the camel book has a section with tips for porters is telling. There's a big difference between Java's robust guarantee of portability and perl's "best effort" philosophy.
  - chromatic 16y ago
    In theory. I have Perl code from a decade ago that still runs on VMS. Can you show me similar Java code? The fact that the camel book has a section with tips for porters is telling. The Camel book is a decade out of date.
- lelele 16y ago
  >> If it's difficult to find great Perl developers, that's because [fewer] great developers flock to Perl. > I would like to see non-anecdotal evidence for this. No non-anecdotal evidence for this, sorry. It's just a result of thinking about what Perl offers and what current languages offer. I know Perl quite well, you know. >> Heck, even the humble Javascript allows you to perform mind-bending dynamic feats. > It's also borrowing features Perl has had for years. Hm. Right. Just like Perl borrows features from other languages. >> Other languages offer multiplatform support (native, Java, .NET) which Perl lacks. > That definition of "multiplatform" differs from mine. Perl 5 runs on more platforms than the CLR and JVM do. My comment is not about platform themselves. It was more about: "I need to hook this Java/.NET library" and then there are languages where you can just switch platform (interpreter or compiler) to interface such a library natively. See, Chromatic, when I met Perl I was amazed by its capabilities and progressed to read advanced books about this language. But nowadays, after meeting other languages, I regret my time spent with Perl, and I wouldn't recommend such language to anyone, just like I wouldn't do that with C++, another language in which I have progressed to what I think is almost "wizardry". After a lot of time spent in learning different languages, I do think that there are languages not worth learning. It may sound arrogant, but I think so, and I think that experienced developers have the right to think so and make newcomers spare time. Do you think Perl is worth learning? You are entitled to that. Don't I think it is? I'm entitled too. And both of us are entitled to share our experience.

by lelele 16y ago

chromatic 16y ago

If it's difficult to find great Perl developers, that's because [fewer] great developers flock to Perl. I would like to see non-anecdotal evidence for this. Heck, even the humble Javascript allows you to perform mind-bending dynamic feats. It's also borrowing features Perl has had for years. Hm. Other languages offer multiplatform support (native, Java, .NET) which Perl lacks. That definition of "multiplatform" differs from mine. Perl 5 runs on more platforms than the CLR and JVM do.

Dove 16y ago
Perl 5 runs on more platforms than the CLR and JVM do. In theory. In practice, if it runs on one JVM, it runs on any JVM. No questions asked. Perl is full of, "Oops, that crashes on Windows" traps. If you know where they all are, you can avoid them, but it's hard to be sure you've found the last one. The fact that the camel book has a section with tips for porters is telling. There's a big difference between Java's robust guarantee of portability and perl's "best effort" philosophy.
- chromatic 16y ago
  In theory. I have Perl code from a decade ago that still runs on VMS. Can you show me similar Java code? The fact that the camel book has a section with tips for porters is telling. The Camel book is a decade out of date.
lelele 16y ago
>> If it's difficult to find great Perl developers, that's because [fewer] great developers flock to Perl. > I would like to see non-anecdotal evidence for this. No non-anecdotal evidence for this, sorry. It's just a result of thinking about what Perl offers and what current languages offer. I know Perl quite well, you know. >> Heck, even the humble Javascript allows you to perform mind-bending dynamic feats. > It's also borrowing features Perl has had for years. Hm. Right. Just like Perl borrows features from other languages. >> Other languages offer multiplatform support (native, Java, .NET) which Perl lacks. > That definition of "multiplatform" differs from mine. Perl 5 runs on more platforms than the CLR and JVM do. My comment is not about platform themselves. It was more about: "I need to hook this Java/.NET library" and then there are languages where you can just switch platform (interpreter or compiler) to interface such a library natively. See, Chromatic, when I met Perl I was amazed by its capabilities and progressed to read advanced books about this language. But nowadays, after meeting other languages, I regret my time spent with Perl, and I wouldn't recommend such language to anyone, just like I wouldn't do that with C++, another language in which I have progressed to what I think is almost "wizardry". After a lot of time spent in learning different languages, I do think that there are languages not worth learning. It may sound arrogant, but I think so, and I think that experienced developers have the right to think so and make newcomers spare time. Do you think Perl is worth learning? You are entitled to that. Don't I think it is? I'm entitled too. And both of us are entitled to share our experience.