10 ms·
Tim Ferriss on tolerable mediocrity, and the advice he gives startups
- alnayyir 16y agoWhy would anyone in this industry care what Timothy Ferriss thinks? Have all the VCs, angels, entrepreneurs, programmers, and software PMs died?
- yummyfajitas 16y agoHe may be selling snake oil, but that doesn't mean we have nothing to gain by learning how he sells.
- neilk 16y agoIf there are people here who want to follow Tim Ferriss' business plan (being a false ubermensch to impress a gullible public into buying his books), I don't want to be on this board.
- rubeng 16y agoHe is an angel and entrepreneur. A pretty good one from the looks of it. Not only that, but he openly shares information, has plenty of data to back it up, and is an effective marketer.
- axod 16y agotl;dr; Advert for his new 'self help' book. An advert for Sarah Palins book would be more relevant to HN IMHO.
- kmfrk 16y agoDon't forget the part where he pays lip service to 37signals by speaking against feature creep. Ferris gets to use 37signals as a (completely uncritical) sales platform, and in return he gives them a back rub. Quid pro quo I guess.
- kmfrk 16y agoNot a very interesting article in general - I say that as someone who hates Tim Feriss, but this part was genuinely interesting and novel at least to me: He uses A/B testing for finding the best book title (and subtitle) and cover. “Ferriss famously used Google AdWords and in-store A/B testing to come up with the title to his first book [Full title: "The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich"]. His experimentation didn’t stop there, he decided to test various covers by printing them on high quality paper and placing them on existing similar sized books in the new non-fiction rack at Borders, Palo Alto. He sat with a coffee and observed, learning which cover really was most appealing.”
- hugh3 16y agoTim Ferriss meets 37 Signals, creating a perfect storm of self promotion. "Hi Tim. Some folks doubt that you're as awesome as you say you are, because they can't believe anyone can be so awesome. However, we're also that awesome, so we can totally believe it ourselves."
- nhangen 16y agoCall me cynical, but I have a hard time reading any piece on Tim without thinking of it as a lure to buy something. It's not that he isn't good, it's that he's either selling something, or not talking at all, and I don't trust his intent.
- wccrawford 16y agoWow, not what I was expecting at all. First, hating your job is not better than merely tolerating it. Yes, it'll spur you to change... Just enough to bring it to mediocrity. Hating your job never turns into a job that is awesome. If you have the energy to make it from hate to love, you have more than enough energy to make it from mediocrity to love and sustain it. From the title, I was hoping for an article about getting things done, even if they aren't the best way. Aim for perfection, but don't insist on it. Get it working and start earning money, and then make it better. Oh well.
- edw519 16y agoAdditional inspirational content coming soon: Napolean Hill, "Code and Get Rich" Dale Carnegie, "How to Win Data and Influence Google" Norman Vincent Peale, "The Power of Positive Customer Feedback" Jack Canfield, "Chicken Soup for the Ruby Programmer" Stephen Covey, "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Founders" Ken Blanchard, "The One Minute Start-Up" Harold Kushner, "When Bad Data Happens to Good Web Sites" Tony Robbins, "Awaken the Coder Within" Zig Zigler, "See You at the IPO" Robert Kiyosaki, "Rich Angel, Poor Angel" Wayne Dyer, "You'll See It When You Click It" David Allen, "Getting Apps Done" Robert Fulghum, "All I Really Need to Know I Learned at 37signals"
- maukdaddy 16y agoRobert Fulghum, "All I Really Need to Know I Learned at 37signals" HAHA I wonder, due to age, if the average HNer might not get that reference. Regardless, I can't help but feel that would be a hilarious book. A few possibilities: Warm cookies and great design are good for you Wash your hands before you code Say you're sorry when you have downtime
- RyanMcGreal 16y agoMore: Share everything, preferably on github. Play fair and deploy an API. Don't hit people with bait-and-switch privacy policies. Put things back where you found them or use garbage collection. Clean up your own mess by refactoring, documenting and commenting with a full test suite. Sanitize your inputs before you insert. Flush your input buffer. Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and hack and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some. When you send data out into the world, watch out for packet sniffers, hold hands, and stick together. Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and processes and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.
- hypeibole 16y agoYou forgot: Spencer Johnson, Who moved my VC?
- TheSOB88 16y agoPretty damn funny, but don't forget how Ferriss got to where he is in the first place: making a lot of money in a business. (Just to make sure, you're saying he doesn't have a lot of experience with tech startups, right?)
- techpeace 16y ago"I don’t know anything about Tim Ferris’s exercise regime. He came through our Sport and Fitness Evaluation Program for some testing a number of years ago. He did not provide any information about his purpose. In fact, I only found out that he put my name on his website after receiving an inquiry from someone who had seen the website and asked if I could confirm his results. I cannot — he signed a consent form that states that individual results will not be disclosed. Although he contacted me about being retested, I am not willing to do that because he is apparently using my name and San Jose State University for his commercial purposes, without asking for permission or notifying me of this." The above quotation is allegedly from the doctor that Ferriss sites at the beginning of The 4 Hour Body. I have not verified that the quotation is legitimate, but I found it within this review of the book: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3373698 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=337... I found the review when I was researching some of the claims he makes within the book, claims which, to me, seemed to be obviously fraudulent. Assuming it's true, I have a hard time understanding why anyone should seek him out for advice on any matter.
- trevelyan 16y agoThis runs the other way for me, suggesting that Ferris at least made a good faith effort to get supporting data. No-one is claiming the data is wrong here. It's the "fitness evaluation expert" who is refusing to confirm or even retest the guy. And her scorn about "commercial purposes" rings particularly hollow given she is taking salary from a publicly-funded university. Reminds me of the time I paid a US university hospital for various STD tests for visa purposes, and then the hospital refused to give me the resulting paperwork citing patient confidentiality. Totally ridiculous.
- techpeace 16y agoI think there's a difference between getting "supporting data" (or your own medical test results) and using a physician (and a university's name) without their express permission to both: 1. promote a commercial work, and 2. espouse an exercise regime that may be harmful. Tim has responded to my comment on that original post: "Matt, To be clear: - Dr. Plato took most of the measurements in one chapter titled “Geek to Freak” - As she noted, I’ve contacted her several times (phone and email) in the desire to confirm data and even repeat tests. My last email to her was in March of 2009 and read: “Dear Dr. Plato, It has been some time since we last spoke, and I hope this finds you well! We did a number of hydrostatic weighings and circumference measurements back in 2005/2006, when I was gaining a lot of muscular weight as an experiment. Are you still working at the Human Performance Laboratory? I will be writing a new book about physical optimization and will need to track things well. Do you have any availability for a visit from me and one other person anytime soon?” If I wanted to falsify data, I wouldn’t include a specific person’s name. Too much headache for everyone. I hoped to actually work with Dr. Plato to present things, but she didn’t respond to my email/phone. That is. Nothing sinister about it. All the best, Tim Ferriss"
- kayoone 16y agoI dont like Ferris. I read Tim Ferris 4 hour work week a while back. While he has some valid points, overall i think its a big scam. Hes a genius in marketing himself and his mediocre books that make things all so simple, but thats about it.
- scrrr 16y agoHm. The people that hate/don't like T. Ferriss: Can you summarize in one sentence why? (I understand that we sometimes just don't like people for no conscious reason, perhaps some of you failed following his book, but there must be more?)
- axod 16y agoI think the main reason is that he sells books about how to be successful, but his only success is in selling those books. It's a scam. And the 'advice' is ridiculous. Most 'self help gurus' just prey on the stupid.
- InfinityX0 16y agoYou know he sold his previous company, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Ferriss#cite_ref-7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Ferriss#cite_ref-7
- absconditus 16y agoDid you bother to look into his previous company at all?
- jonhendry 16y agoAs do most nutritional supplement vendors.
- caustic 16y agoBecause if you dig into biographies of these self-promotional gurus, you'll see that they only succeeded in writing books about success. They are just frauds.
- kareemm 16y agoHe's an investor in Twitter, Digg, and StumbleUpon. That alone seems to be a measure of success well beyond "writing books about success".
- fingerprinter 16y agoI think a chrome extension to block all HN links about Tim Ferriss is in order, but leaves the HN comments (which are the actual interesting bits). While I am genuinely impressed and shocked at his ability to self-promote, the content is ALWAYS a waste of time. Meta-lessons about self promotion and marketing are interesting...wish I could extract those without actually reading the content as when TF speaks, I just seem to get more and more angry. Asking a genuine question: What is a good hack to get over the feeling that self-promotion is slimy? Not that I want to go all out like TF, but it would be interesting to have it in ones bag of tricks that you can turn to when needed.
- neilk 16y agoCould be a couple of reasons. In some cultures, to talk about one's own achievements just isn't done. To get over that you have to recognize that what makes sense for a family or group of friends isn't appropriate in business, where people have to make quick decisions about whom to listen to or associate with. You also feel slimy if you don't actually believe what you're saying. Start with the attitude of 'how can I help the other person'. If you think you have something of value to give them, what's wrong with that? Tell the truth, maybe even also your shortcomings. You don't have to dwell on them. Look at how Pinboard.in lists the reasons a customer might not want their product.
- greyman 16y agoWhat's so intolerable about Tim Ferriss? Just this month, I read portions of his two books, and have found them quite interesting... he's not 100% correct, but is able to generate new ideas or inspire. But maybe that just me here.
- steveplace 16y agoI have a HN litmus test: if the comment section hates it, then pay attention. Other themes that persist are google, facebook, twitter, zynga, dhh, ebooks, mba, and pretty much anything that's acquired.
- lynx44 16y agoI am not a big fan of Tim Ferriss - he argues for a 4 hour work week, but in one sample day of his I saw, he worked 4 hours on one article for the Economist alone. That said, this article is surprisingly interesting/useful.
- steveklabnik 16y ago> he argues for a 4 hour work week, but You're missing his message. > In the second category, you have people who don’t love what they do. It comes back to that comfortable mediocrity. And for them, it’s about replacement. It’s not about reduction. For them, the goal is to get to the point where they’re doing what they love. And that is the objective of everything that I teach. _It’s not to be idle_, but it’s to get to the point where you control your time and allocate it to the things that will give you the most joy and also provide the greatest impact. For each person, that will be very individual. Emphasis mine.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- steveklabnik 16y agoWhy specifically is it that Tim Ferriss brings out the absolute worst in HN? Most of these comments would not be tolerated on any other thread, yet when it's Tim Ferris, all of a sudden random "LOL TIM SUXX!!!" comments get 20+ points? Furthermore, I continue to be confused and amazed that someone who is clearly a hacker and a damn good salesman is vilified around here, a place for hackers trying to be good salesmen. It's a very strange outlier.
- dzlobin 16y agoPeople get upset that they toil away at their jobs all day and he gets rich from seemingly nothing. Even though the truth is that he's a fantastic salesman and a really smart guy who works hard selling his admittedly mediocre books and himself.
- bluesnowmonkey 16y agoBecause smooth-talking salesmen are exactly the opposite of what I idolize. Because communities like this are vulnerable to astroturfing. Because when someone is trying to sell me something, that inspires distrust. Because self help books are a dime a dozen and offer more hope than help. Because someone offering improvements to my sex life sets off all my bullshit alarms. Saying he is "villified around here" is both false and casts him as a victim. In fact he has been on the front page of HN many times.