5 ms·

Good, I just paid $4.75 a gallon. California should not have higher gas prices than Hawaii, period.

kjksf 7y ago
This will not affect gas prices. The argument is that this would make car prices higher. But so does building SUVs instead of smaller passenger cars like in Europe, so I'm not that sympathetic to that argument given that emissions also kill people, cause asthma and other issues and contribute to global warming. If anything, if Trump wins this fight, California might decide to use other means of achieving the same result, like taxing gas more.
- blackflame7000 7y ago
  "This will not affect gas prices." - Flat out nonsense
  - philipkglass 7y ago
    Ceteris paribus, more stringent fuel economy requirements will reduce demand for gasoline without reducing supply. So in the simplest case one would indeed expect a change in gas prices -- downward.
    - blackflame7000 7y ago
      That’s completely asinine to think California alone can influence global gas prices. Typical progressive thinking looking at the world the way they you want it to be instead of the way it really is. BTW electric cars are still powered by a power plant which is massively inefficient because of transmission loss. There is no such thing, and there never will be, an emission-less car
rz2k 7y ago
Hawaii has higher prices than California[0], but I don't think there is any definitive reason that gasoline should be cheaper in Hawaii. Hawaii is surrounded by ocean on all sides. Many metropolitan areas in California are valleys facing an onshore wind. Vehicle emissions kill people in Hawaii, and they kill even more people in California. California produces more oil than Hawaii, but location or input prices in general are not the only determinant of energy prices. Take a look at some of the current gas prices around the world.[1] $/Gall - Country Average Price 0.34 - Cuba 1.08 - Iran 2.08 - Egypt 2.20 - Saudi Arabia 2.91 - US 3.72 - Australia 3.86 - Canada 4.05 - Mexico 5.42 - Spain 5.60 - New Zealand 5.80 - Germany 6.36 - France 6.55 - Italy 7.09 - Norway Compare Cuba, Iran, Italy and Norway. How about miles of paved roads to maintain [2] 180,800 - California 4,469 - Hawaii or the wear by millions of miles traveled on those roads?[3] 340,115 - California 10,635 - Hawaii Even if supplying gasoline to Hawaii is more expensive, and it has 1/20th the population of California to shoulder the costs of maintenance, there has a much smaller road network per capita to support, different air quality challenges, and less driving overall to discourage. [0] https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/ https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/ [1] https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/ https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/ [2] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2016/hm10.cfm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2016/h... [3] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2016/vm2.cfm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2016/v...
- blackflame7000 7y ago
  Do you have any idea how gasoline tax for the roads is actually used in California? It does not go to the roads that I can assure you. It goes to a giant general fund that until very recently Jerry Brown was using to susidize the train to nowhere.
  - rz2k 7y ago
    About 90% of the gasoline tax goes towards transportation infrastructure, its financing administration and law enforcement.[1] About 50-60% of transportation infrastructure funding[2] comes from gasoline taxes. Approximately zero gasoline tax dollars go toward healthcare costs and other economic costs related to auto emissions. "Meeting federal clean air standards would have prevented an estimated 29,808 hospital admissions and ER visits throughout California over 2005–2007."[3] This is not the full economic cost[4] of poor air quality, which would also count long term impacts on health, the loss in lifetime earnings due to cognitive deficits, and the effects of emissions above a baseline without auto emissions that is below the federal standards, but still causing illness and development impacts. Transportation also has many benefits to the people and stuff being transported as well as everyone in general, but it is difficult to understand the perspective where shirking responsibility for negative externalities is virtuous or principled, and enforcing a more equitable accounting is somehow corrupt. [1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/01/gas-tax-where-does-the-money-actually-go/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/01/gas-tax-where-does-th... [2] https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3572 https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3572 [3] https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9501/index1.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9501/index1.html [4] https://www.ewg.org/research/smoggy-schools/health-impacts-economic-costs https://www.ewg.org/research/smoggy-schools/health-impacts-e...
bt848 7y ago
According to AAA you got ripped off. The highest fuel price in California today is $4.17/gal for premium fuel in San Luis Obispo. This price is 15% below the all-time high set in 2012.

This will not affect gas prices. The argument is that this would make car prices higher. But so does building SUVs instead of smaller passenger cars like in Europe, so I'm not that sympathetic to that argument given that emissions also kill people, cause asthma and other issues and contribute to global warming. If anything, if Trump wins this fight, California might decide to use other means of achieving the same result, like taxing gas more.

blackflame7000 7y ago
"This will not affect gas prices." - Flat out nonsense
- philipkglass 7y ago
  Ceteris paribus, more stringent fuel economy requirements will reduce demand for gasoline without reducing supply. So in the simplest case one would indeed expect a change in gas prices -- downward.
  - blackflame7000 7y ago
    That’s completely asinine to think California alone can influence global gas prices. Typical progressive thinking looking at the world the way they you want it to be instead of the way it really is. BTW electric cars are still powered by a power plant which is massively inefficient because of transmission loss. There is no such thing, and there never will be, an emission-less car

rz2k 7y ago

Hawaii has higher prices than California[0], but I don't think there is any definitive reason that gasoline should be cheaper in Hawaii. Hawaii is surrounded by ocean on all sides. Many metropolitan areas in California are valleys facing an onshore wind. Vehicle emissions kill people in Hawaii, and they kill even more people in California. California produces more oil than Hawaii, but location or input prices in general are not the only determinant of energy prices. Take a look at some of the current gas prices around the world.[1] $/Gall - Country Average Price 0.34 - Cuba 1.08 - Iran 2.08 - Egypt 2.20 - Saudi Arabia 2.91 - US 3.72 - Australia 3.86 - Canada 4.05 - Mexico 5.42 - Spain 5.60 - New Zealand 5.80 - Germany 6.36 - France 6.55 - Italy 7.09 - Norway Compare Cuba, Iran, Italy and Norway. How about miles of paved roads to maintain [2] 180,800 - California 4,469 - Hawaii or the wear by millions of miles traveled on those roads?[3] 340,115 - California 10,635 - Hawaii Even if supplying gasoline to Hawaii is more expensive, and it has 1/20th the population of California to shoulder the costs of maintenance, there has a much smaller road network per capita to support, different air quality challenges, and less driving overall to discourage. [0] https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/ https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/ [1] https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/ https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/ [2] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2016/hm10.cfm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2016/h... [3] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2016/vm2.cfm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2016/v...

blackflame7000 7y ago
Do you have any idea how gasoline tax for the roads is actually used in California? It does not go to the roads that I can assure you. It goes to a giant general fund that until very recently Jerry Brown was using to susidize the train to nowhere.
- rz2k 7y ago
  About 90% of the gasoline tax goes towards transportation infrastructure, its financing administration and law enforcement.[1] About 50-60% of transportation infrastructure funding[2] comes from gasoline taxes. Approximately zero gasoline tax dollars go toward healthcare costs and other economic costs related to auto emissions. "Meeting federal clean air standards would have prevented an estimated 29,808 hospital admissions and ER visits throughout California over 2005–2007."[3] This is not the full economic cost[4] of poor air quality, which would also count long term impacts on health, the loss in lifetime earnings due to cognitive deficits, and the effects of emissions above a baseline without auto emissions that is below the federal standards, but still causing illness and development impacts. Transportation also has many benefits to the people and stuff being transported as well as everyone in general, but it is difficult to understand the perspective where shirking responsibility for negative externalities is virtuous or principled, and enforcing a more equitable accounting is somehow corrupt. [1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/01/gas-tax-where-does-the-money-actually-go/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/01/gas-tax-where-does-th... [2] https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3572 https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3572 [3] https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9501/index1.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9501/index1.html [4] https://www.ewg.org/research/smoggy-schools/health-impacts-economic-costs https://www.ewg.org/research/smoggy-schools/health-impacts-e...

bt848 7y ago

According to AAA you got ripped off. The highest fuel price in California today is $4.17/gal for premium fuel in San Luis Obispo. This price is 15% below the all-time high set in 2012.